Well in a topic or two (and the shoutbox) people have started talking about this - so not to go off topic anymore - here's a thread about it!

This is a man, who's done more than most of his predecesors. He tried to bring different religions closer, he fought communism, he tried to connect with the youth, he opposed contraception, he fought for peace and against exploitation...
There are many things that can be said about him, but right now the real question is, when will he be alowed to die.

With modern medicine people can be kept alive - but is that live?
His own wish (as others interpreted his words) was to be kept alive no matter what. He is a symbol and what they decide to do in this case will set a presedance for many other (less importaint) people. So the decision is really political. On the other hand - how can he preform his duties (he's still the single leader of the Chatolic Church). It's enough to show him some papers for a certain amount of time - and if he nods - he aproves of them. At least that's how they got over a dozen cardinals apointed in the last few days. But when it comes to church laws - this is legal.

OK - this are just some of the thoughts I had, let's hear yours...

He also forbid the use of condoms, spreading aids more rapidly :whistle:

but yes he did a lot of good things. I hope the next one will have a more modern point-of-view though. Even church has to watch what is happening around them in the world, otherwise they'll loose their connection with the people even more.

I just don't see how he can do much good in the state he is in. It semms highly pointless to keep him alive when all he can do is nod and wave a hand.

I am wondering about who will be appointed as the next pope... its been discussed on the news that perhaps a person from the ''third'' world (LEDC) will become the next pope. If this is the case would they have to move to rome?

Sorry, im not very religous and im very retarded when it comes to the rules of religion :D

While I don't agree with many of his viewpoints Karol was a good man and probably the best pope in centuries and it is sad to see a good man like him die.

1 of the 3 most likely to become the next pope is from nigeria, correct. But I think having a corrupt Ghanaian heading the UN is enough already.
its either Ratzinger, or perhaps the Vatican (now that the soviet union is gone) will return back to tradition and push the italian candidate forth as the next pope.

Yeah, you just had to love this pope... I'm not religious too, but he's a good man, there's no doubt about it!

I'm probably just highly ignorantg, but... what do atheistic soviets have to do with choosing the right pope?! :blink:

Well its as Sebatianos said, the pope fought communism, and as a pole he incited anti-communist riots in poland which then grew in size across other soviet republics.
In a way the choice of a polish pope helped in the destabilazation of the soviet republics and maybe even in the eventual downfall of the soviet union.

Most reporters now laude him not only as a peaceful pope, but also as the pope that helped 'destroy' the soviet union.

Just because people are doing something still doesn't make it right. The high morality standards are maybe out of reach for most pepole, but does this mean we should lower the standard?
This has nothing to do with popularity. People don't like paying taxes eather, but this doesn't mean the next government should get rid odd all taxes. Sure that would make them popular, but the state would fall apart imediatly. So I think modernization of the church should not change its moral point of views. People should not have intercourse all over the place and surely not just for the pleasure of it. And if this would be achieved then the need for condomes would probably be very close to none.

This is very sad, but not really unexpected since he's been suffering of Parkinson for almost 12 years if I'm not mistaken, and had to be taken to hospital even more often on last months.

He's been more modern than a lot of actual candidates for his seat. He's a Pope much loved by young people, since he deeply loved them. He started many youth meetings, the most famous should be "World's Youth Day"(my personal translation from Italian, dunno if it's correct).
About the condoms, well, they break in fact one of the main rules of Catholic Church, which is the respect of life in all his forms (and condoms do in fact prevent births), and the same goes for abortion. Condoms and abortion are a custom of contemporary age, while these rules I told about before have been written to be "eternal".
The counter of the medal is illnesses such as Hiv infection and unwanted births by mothers who cannot afford to raise their baby, and more. I'm for laicism, condoms and abortions (when absolutely necessary), but you can't expect the Chief of a Church to go against his own church's beliefs.

He's a holy man if I've ever seen one, and I'll be happy if the next Pope will be half as good as John Paul II.

I am Really christian but have 0 respect for the church....except for this guy...

I cant beleive he pardonned the guy who tried to kill him. This IS so christian.
This Pope was a true christian not like the ones who orderd the crusades or contributed in genocides or the selling of seats in heaven. U r all talking about y keeping him when he is so sick...well its true he was sick for a long time now but he did travel the world giving hope to third world countries and in his state it was a true sacrifice again This is SO christian.

I wish him a nice trip and if he's not going to heaven we are all going to hell.(not that i beleive in hell but u get my point)

I think news media is over-informative, by that I mean that here in Croatia normal program on like all the news stations is being interrupted every hour to keep us updated with his condition that hasn't change for a whole day know...
That's pointless, it's enough that they inform us in normal news shows, they should interrupt the program only if his condition changes dramatically...
Why don't they let him die in peace?

The Pope is dead. Few minutes ago.

There is a lot of hype about how the pope is so holy. I think he is just a regular guy who wants to do the best he can in life for the world.

Woah holy crap!!!!!!!! Where for the news? Link link!!!

Well, if there's an afterlife, maybe he'll have to give some answers to the countless africans (especially children) who died of AIDS...

Excuse me, but why is that? What exactly is so wrong about having sex for sheer pleasure? Just because the church keeps saying this for millenia, it has to be a "moral value"?

Well it's just after 10pm here and I'm just listening to the live news... The pope John Paul II has passed away (at 9:37 central European time). Let him rest in peace.

Amen

Indeed, His Holyness pope John Paul II has died

True, may he rest in piece...

He indeed was a great man... May he rest in peace.

May he rest in peace

I can only add one thing - a great man has passed and I wish him a safe journey!

Indeed sad news, he was a great man, may he rest in peace and finally get the much needed rest he so richly deserves.

The poop died?

DO uwant to me to beleive that it was becoz of the pope that they died of aids? half these persons dont know what the pope is . DOnt know what a condom is dont know how to use it. dont have money to buy it.
It is NOT becoz of the pope!!!

If the church permitted condoms they would have been saved ? how stupid is that thought?

*picture removed*

If the poop is all about saving people he should sell his gold and buy food for the hungry.

Also, AIDS is not even caused by HIV. Condoms do nothing.

http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/controversy.htm

http://www.harmonikireland.com/print.php?topic=HIV

EDIT:
Looks like someone needs a punishment!

I don't care what you think of the pope, personally I couldn't care less about the pope. However! He is dead, and we DO NOT mock the dead! :angry:

advice : delete ur post ....

nice trying to convince me that all what i learned in MED school is wrong and u r right.

Sadly I must say that this is true.

This surely is a sad news, but as DeathDude said: "This is a man who deserves to rest."
All we can still do is to wish him a safe jurney to a less burdened place (Rainwife said it nicely).

A great man has passed away today. Let us not be sad, let us look back on his life and find inspiration.

What's your problem cheesegrater? And AIDS does follow on from HIV, AIDS sceptics are idiots.

Cheesegrater obviously loves conspiracy theories, but don't forget he's a nazi...

Edit:
Don't flame back on people :angry:

reported by moi.. I just had to report that.

Where's somebody with mod/admin power?
Cheesegrater's picture has got to go!

Have you not at least some respect for a person who just died? Regarthless of anything else you think about the church or the pope - a man just died and you're making fun of him?!?!

wonder how long cheesegrater will stay.

Anyone want to organise a sweepstake? My money's on 1 day, because it takes the admins that long to do anything.

You don't seem like a guy that went to a medical school. If I had to guess I would say you are 14 years old.

I am not making fun of the poop. I'm simply stating that he is a wealthy man and he should use his cash to help others.

The money isn't his, and neither are any of the relics, it belongs to the church. It would be a very bad thing if they were all sold to private collectors or religious weirdos.

He is the leader of the church, so I would think he had the power to use the money. The pope has his own army too.

Yes 100 halberd-armed men or something...

maybe, one day, we'll rename this topic:
The last hours of Pope John Paul II
And the last spams of cheesegrater

ban him.. please

:ot: I think that's better to remove that picture.Have you got any respect to him?The man has just die let him rest in peace. :eeeeeh: :ot:

thats so nice thank you .

great argument great example u just convinced me

All the money is needed to maintain the vatican and various other things, all the relics are on public display and it would be a very sad thing if they were not avalible for the public to see.

Well, maybe inform yourself on christianity in africa before you make up crap like that. Large parts of the african population are indeed christians. And it was Pope John Paul II. who explicitly FORBID those people the use of condoms only some years ago AGAIN. Maybe take a walk through the ghetto of Nairobi and talk to a few people there... :not_ok:

Maybe some of them don't know what condoms are and what they can do, but that is why many health-organisations try to help those people in those departments. Only that it is all wasted if their supreme spiritual leader doesn't allow those people to protect themselves in the first place.

To cheesegrater:
Then you are among the ignorat bunch...
First of it's The POPE.
Second - that's a position, same as a president, prime minister, king,...
A pope can never have personal possesion. It's the national treasury of Vatican (an independant state). All of it belongs to the church - so to all the roman-chatolics (after all it was their contributions).
And there is no pope at the moment. The recend one died not even two hours ago. The picture you put up has offensive language on it, makes fun of a person (one who just passed away) and is straight out offensive. Now if it offends me (an atheist) that much I guess it can make a chatolic really angry - or worse sad.
An explicid sexual picture couldn't be more offensive at this point in time.

I think the relics should be sold. After all, Christianity teaches not to pursue material things and Jesus always say to rich people to sell all their stuff and feed the poor.

What if it had the Pope in it?

All people are allowed to see the relics for free and benefit from their beauty. This is a very good thing, I saw them in February and it would be tragic if they all went to private owners.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how they benefit from it.

Then you are a philistine

To cheesegrater:
I'm not surprised that you can't see the benefit.
It's something of a cultural value - something you have proven you know nothing off.

He is a sick person.please ban him.I'm a chatolic an i'm realy angry

Look at all of his posts, pretty much every single one of them is a troll post, all he does is try to start flame wars and piss people off, this is why he should be banned.

I hate cheesegrater.. and cheese, which makes him even worse.

surprised he's still here

I also hate cheese because it is cruel to put animals in concentration camps and harvest them for food.

I used the name because a cheesegrater can be used as a weapon.

Ok, I am not religious but am extremely offended by the picture... If this doesn't get this sick person a permanent ban, nothing will...

You guys have no sense of humour.

can we put him in a concentration camp? wouldn't be cruelty to animals or inhumane. he's below animals and humans.

EDIT:
Don't flame back! :angry:

He died two hours ago.You are really sick

You have no sense of taste or context.

this man just died. I'll repeat what i said to Havell...

...

then he'll be IP, email and username banned

hunted down and shot

and have his eyes poked out with hot coals in his last moments

and we'll make a pic of him saying bling bling bitch

EDIT:

Don't flame back!

Much like your favored National-socialism...
But they did it to people, you are disgusting...

EDIT:
Don't flame back!

You call yourself a good person and you post something like this. You are certainly morally superior and civilized.

did I say I was good? nope. but I needn't say you aren't. that would be pointing out the obvious.

Edit:
Flaming back, yet again...

You aren't good either. I think making a post like this that threatens me is more offensive than criticizing the Pope's actions in a satirical manner.

Where is stroggy when u need him?

Look we have no problem if u dont like the pope but u have to show ur respect to our opinions u did hurt most of our feelings. the picture shows a recently dead man being ridiculised . Thats irrespectful

Sense of humour? I can't believe my very own eyes... You know, chessegrater, some people would severely hurt you if they saw that picture... Didn't know you were nazi, you're definitely sick...
And not to mention all those HIV and AIDS bull**** of yours...


Edit:
Another flame, another warn :not_ok:

Where are the admins now when we need them?

EDIT:He's a nazi i see taht from he's post

Edit:
STOP FLAMING!! :wall:

tom's on his way

I thought the picture showed the Pope as a cool guy, and people would like it. I thought the picture could be enjoyed on many levels and could be interpreted in many different ways. I am sad to see you guys couldn't see it, and only saw it as offensive.

Excuse me for not understanding, but Stroggy isn't admin... :blink:

Excuse me for not understanding, but Stroggy isn't admin... :blink: [/b][/quote]
i know but bad attitude is needed.

That pic was just poorly made, cakes have levels but that picture was just sh1t.

ENOUGH

If John Paul II found the strenght to forgive the man who shot him, I guess we best follow his example and at least stop flaming (I wanted to continue, but we're not getting anywhere).
The post has been reported, our opinion was made clear, but let's not turn this night into a meaningless fight with a person, who will have much hardship to face in his life (cheesegrater).

cheesegrater, you have no respect for the dead or many of the living.

But flaming is fun :cry:

Oh I forgot the ignore option, well Cheesegrater is on it, and most people who get there, get banned soon...

i know but bad attitude is needed. [/b][/quote]
Yeah I know that he is Mr. Bad Attitude, but didn't quite noticed why is he called like that... Seems like a nice person

this whole discussion is simply tasteless. can't you keep a little piety, cheesegrater?

glad Im not being ignored..

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, I disagee.

That's just sad cheesegrater, show some respect man, the man hasn't even been dead for a day yet.

here is tom henrik.bann him please

*sigh*
glad I got tom here..

The whacko is still there... FASTER, TOM!!!!

Buy Buy cheesegrater :bye: :bye: .I hope i will never see you again

dont push tom. it takes time to totally warn, ba, delete and completely boll*ck a person.

uhh... looks like I'm a bit late, this topic seems totally drama-fied and spamminated, but ignoring that...


God bless the Pope, may he rest in peace.

Edit: Out of respect, could you guys PLEASE stop the spam-fest? If someone is being disrespectful, ignore him, and there's no need to talk about Tom's admin actions here.

Just give me a warning please. I was simply ignorant of people's strong feelings towards the pope and that they were so easily offended. After all the media shows a lot of things that are very offensive, yet nobody cares. I thought everyone was desensitized to it and I thought my picture was constructive criticism.

please dont join in.. cheesegrater just aint worth your time. or most of ours, at that..
god I had a whole 10 posts killing him.. what a waste

The pope would have forgiven him so i guess in his honour we should too....

I think you give the man too much credit. While he might have been a great guy, most of the decisions made by the church are not his, he was merely the spokesman, a symbol if you will.


And please don't close this topic, just delete the personal attacks, and give the spammers a good old fashioned over the knee spanking.

thats the last 4 or 5 pages.. I think we need them anyway to show our feeling against people like cheesegrater.

We don't take kindly to our forum being overrun by trolls.

Edit:
Yet another flame comment :ranting:

Just give me a warning please. I was simply ignorant of people's strong feelings towards the pope and that they were so easily offended. After all the media shows a lot of things that are very offensive, yet nobody cares. I thought everyone was desensitized to it and I thought my picture was constructive criticism. [/b][/quote]
I don't think anyone should fall for that...

@ rhavell: we never have, we never will.

@ Overlord: I couldn't agree more. he just wants to stay and troll more.


EDIT:
Flaming again...

Again... please stop the spamfest, since you guys are apparently posting too fast to notice the edit in my last post.

i'm too sensible.now i'm repend on what i say.

I did notice it, Tai, and not meaning to insult you, but cheesegrater just really pissed me off. he even gave me a bloody headache now.

I agree with Tai, the picture has been removed and the admin business is well admin business...

i saw it now sorry taikara.

Sorry Tai, didn't see it as well... Same for me as for Danny, that guy is really disgraceful...

well, I guess he wont be back for a bit.
so lets honour the dead pope and.. stop flaming
anyone I have offended (apart from cheesegrater) I am deeply sorry.

Yeah, let's just move on from this incident, and get back to what the purpose of the topic was about the pope.

OK, I hereby declare that I will stop this evening's flaming session.

On a lighter note, 2000 posts! Yeah! :Brain: :Brain: :Brain:

From what I understand, the late Pope was an honorable and enlightened man.

However, I'm not Catholic, and I know very little about him...

Does anyone know his background? His life before he came Pope? For me, that would be very interesting to know.

Sebastianos wrote a great news about him just check the main page

you have something on the main page of abandonia

I know that the city he grew up in was officially athiest and had no church so he led a protest and convinced the government to build a cathedral which he became bishop of.

He was the first Slavic pope(Poland), also the first non-Italian pope in the last few hundred years, he was a pope for 26 years, the 3rd longest in history during which he visited 120 different countries...

:angry:


I have cleaned out this entire topic, dealing out punishments left and right!!

I even had to CLOSE this topic, because you all were so eager to flame! :ranting:



cheesegrater has been suspended for a whole week, and got his warn level up to 80% in one go.
I have also increased the warnings for several of the other participants of this topic. How many? I don't know.

They were all warned because they flamed back!



I don't give a crap who started it (cheesegrater), NO-ONE is to flame anyone, REGARDLESS of what the other person has done!


If ANYONE questions my decisions about this and starts bitching, they will recieve a nice 12 hour suspension in return.


And don't ask me to ban members, a ban can only be done after the entire admin crew agrees. cheesegrater has a week suspension to look forward to <_<



I will open this topic again, but at the first sign of anyone trying to relive past "glory" from this topic, I will shut it down for good and stuff it in the trashcan!

Do you people understand?!

Its good to c that almost all the langages are paying a tribute to the pope.


PS : great job :Tom: !

So, like I said, he visited Coventry once, which I thin kis a strange choice of cities as he olny went to Coventry and one other city (Canterbury, which has a really big cathedral).

Indeed xcom freak it's good to see that many languages are paying tribute, it's going to be an interesting couple of days from now on, almost every news network I have, is reporting on this.

Thank you for opening this thread again, its a shame how a thread commemorating this great and remarkable man deteriorated into a flamefest. And he was indeed a great, intelligent, man. A pope that has been able to reach out and touch the hearts of not only his own believers, but also the hearts of atheists and jews and basically everybody. We can safely say that he started a new era in the history of the church namely one of actual tollerance and we must hope and pray that this era continues.

@R Havell & Tai:

I don't really feel like retelling the whole story, so HERE is his biography (didn't have time to read this one myself, but I guess it will do nicely - doubt they made errors...).

To answer R Havell - Karol Woityla grew up in Wadowice, a small Polish village. The village was mostly Jewish (as about 1/4 of Polish population at the time was Jewish). Poland was/is one of the most religious countries in Europe - deeply chatollic, so a chance of his village being atheist is none. But the communist regime didn't allow a church to be build there (communism and the official church were always seen as opponents...).

I completely agree with Stroggy, from word to word... Let's hope next pope will follow his steps...

BTW, I made news for Croatian site too.

Well said, Stroggy. *moved to tears by words*

The Pope once visited Melbourne (a very long time ago) and I was walking down the street of the inner city when he went past in the Pope Mobile, towering over the opening, or was he in a glassed-in section?...anyway, he was standing and you could see him clearly waving and smiliing. There weren't many people lining the streets, as this 'meet the people' episode hadn't received that much publicity. He radiated goodness and something very special. He really lit up the street. I was so captivated I felt compelled to follow his progress until the slowly moviing vehicle had turned the corner towards the Catholic Cathedral.

looks like a hot disgussion here (joined to late :tomato: )

I think its not good to say sth bad about dead people, in the other way i think they wont care anymore :angel:

So The pope seemed to be quite a good guy but I only saw him in TV when he was
kind of funny sick :whistle:

The best pope ever lived only reign about 30 days and he died by "Heart Disease"

Maybe fortuity, or maybe cause he wanted to spend all the church money to the poor people.

However best luck to your soul pope.

The pope is dead, long live the pope

Bye :bye: Bye

I hope the black brazilian candidate gets to be the new pope . This will regive me confidence in the church but i think i am just daydreaming.

Yeah, I wonder who they'll pick for the next pope, there is a South American guy who looks quite a good candidate because South America now has more catholics than any other part of the world.

I have been out for few hours and now this :eeeeeh:
from 2 pages to 8,and mostly just flame war :rolleyes:
Btw :Tom: .... :ok:

:kosta: :kosta: :kosta:
Indeed nice words

A black pope (I would like this but....not gonna happen)

I have read up on Arinze (the black cardinal) and I'm not sure if having him as pope is such a good idea. Frankly I don't know who would make a good pope. Here in belgium people are backing Daneels I guess, he's liberal and witty and okay in my book... but I don't think we'll have another pope like Karol. There was soemthing special about Karol, even on the TV he radiated kindness but these others all seem like cranky old men (except for the italian cardinal who is a bit too young).

To be honest pope Karol II was the only pope that I respected.He was almost incarnation of good side of catholism for me. With his dead....

Me would be a good pope, but i dont want to do it :D

Well I doubt that any of you even know of other popes (most of us aren't old enough). I wasn't even a month old when John Paul II became the pope...

I got some interesting trivia though...
As you know there were only two popes that saw the turn of the milenia (we only had two millenia according to the curently accepted year count).
The previous pope Sylvester II (999 - 1003) was also not an Italian (was French) and he was trying to keep the church together (that was before the great schizm - afte which the ortodox church went its seperate way).
There are a few similarity between the two...

The most likely candidate for the next pope in my opinion is the arch-bishop of Millano (happened many times in the past). But we have the current one and the ex-one who are both considere to be the candidates.
Well who ever will become the next pontifix will have a difficoult job to live up to the expectations of people around the globe.

It'll be hard to match what John Paul II did. The man was an very good example of a good leader. :cry:

Did u have to change the front site for it? GIVE IT A REST its on the news... newspapers RIP but enough already.


Are we living in a dictatorship or a democracy?? Why cant people say they hate the pope or they didnt care, it seems only on forums are we NOT allowed to say these things.. The only reason people are not allowed to say these things is because we have upstart dictatorship admins hiding behind their computers, who wouldnt say much at all in real life!

hold your tongue, if you have nothing decent to say.
There is a difference between mocking a person and mocking death.

I thanked Sebatianos for the eulogy he wrote, simply because most of the other sites are too frightened of stepping on someone's toes (be they atheists or from another religion or just plain ignorant) Sebatianos is not religious but it was clear to him that the pope was a good man worthy of praise, I share this opinion deeply eventhough I'm not catholic either, or a christian for that matter.

Oh well wasting my time im talking to a wall , some people are so pathetic
im sure the pope is reading this forum right now

Good, leave, I will not have this thread tumble into chaos once more.

IT did before?? didnt notice why was thay may i wonder :tomato:

im completely unreligious. But imo the late pope did a TREMENDOUS amoun t of good - despite the churches stance on contraceptition.

im hoping the next pope recognises the use of contraception as a way of preventing infection - thus as having medicinal uses and grants its use in africa to fight AIDS.

YAY!


Someone started a war again, now what did I say about that.... hmm....


Oh yeah!

*locked*


And BLOODUK IF you would've read through the topic, you would've seen that I openly said that I didn't care about the pope. You CAN say what you want, as long as you do not start a war (and IF you start a war, end it - don't continue it).