«

[Fubb]

I was playing the 3rd Age mod for Medieval 2 Total War, as the Free Peoples of Eridoar or whatever it's called. Im the biggest faction in the game ,thanks to my monatary and military succsess, Ive helped Rohan and Gondor push back the forces of evil PAST the black gates, thats right bitches, I captured the black gates, the iron hills, the northlands, so on so forth, im an Empire of goodness, AND one of my Generals found the ring of power. woo hoo

However, Mordor has advanced North into Mirkwood, threatening My outlying frontier towns, the Silvian elves, and Dale. However, when i provided financial aid to the Silvian elves, instead of, you know, building an army to prepare for their imminent destruction, they declared war on the DWARVES. the dwarves that have done nothing to no one the entire game.

This got me thinking about something shortly after i ground the civilizations of Gundabar (Orcies) and the Misty Mountain Orcs to the dust....

1; Middle Earth is Rascist - Think about, everyone lives in segregated societies. Humans live away from the elves, elves live away from the dwarves, so on so forth. Orcs live away from everyone caues the past thousands years theyve been being shot by arrows because of mans greed and a simple fault in the rulership of a power crazed dark lord. All politicians make mistakes, amirite?

While humans are bickering among themselves, the 'bad guys', which include orcs, arabians and men with great crazy beards and all of societies 'unwanteds' based on more then likely segregationist-feudal doctrines that govern the human, elf, and dwarf kingdoms, can actually create some form of working order. Sure it's for the blood lust of revenge on the world of man, BUT technically, its a revolution to liberate themselves from there crappy volcanic-wasteland ghetto.

2; The Orcs arn't all that bad - Think about it, despite they're massive numbers, they are middle earths minority, so to speak. They have language, and can speak english, proving there is some form of intellegiance there, YET because of things in the past, society has expelled them to a very undesirable slab of land in the middle of the worlds most polluted zone. Not a happy place to raise your children. You'd be pissed to.

So this guy, Sauron says to his workers and shunned members of societies "This ain't fair!" (Because they have been shunned, they have not had the ability for a proper education like the rest of society, another problem) and he adopts a sort of doctrine that includes;

I-Gather many followers
II-Take over the world of man/eat man meat ()

or atleast thats as much as the movies portray, if we delve deeper into the revolution, it could go one of two ways. Way one is;

III - establish a fair government! ( Level up! )

OR

III - Make the elves, humans and dwarves a minority, and make them feel what we felt

Which would basically make a cycle and a few hundred years later morder would be back to square one ALL over.

But do you get my point here? The fact that the 'forces of evil' are fighting is completely justifiable, they want justice! And frankly, they deserve it too. Just as logn as they dont eat me. Sauron is kind of like the Racial rights protester of the past, demanding equality. He grew up in the hood (Thats mordor) and knows what racism causes, and wants change, and is working towards that change.

3: Whats next?

Whats the world of good supposed to do after Mordor is dead and the orcs are dead. Oh yes. They'll just kill each other. First the Elves cause they like, live in trees and stuff. Just set the forest on fire. Then the Dwarves cause they have much gold and what not. Men like shiny things. But then man will kill each other. Eridoar, rohan, Gondor, they'll all kill each other, we know its goona happen! Man will always want more land, which will thus PROVE that the whole "Guys, lets go kill Mordor" thing was just a land-grab hoax. Or sumthin.

I think everyone could work together. Orcs could being a transition into society slowly, get mandatory education and become learnid, likable people. How do we know this works? Well, in another world of fantasty, while not as well built as tolkiens, we can see the orcs which have similar qualities to those as Tolkiens, are members of society. I am referring to the land of The Elder Scrolls. Suuuure they eat each other, and horses. And they probably would eat humans if laws didn't prevent them from doing so, BUT it is proof that segregation doesn't need to exist!

And what about this whole ring deal?

Sauron made it cause he was just a pimp some form of artist, no doubt. Sure everyone says that he 'made it all magical' and stuff, but in reality, im sure it was an alchemy mistake, just like how, you know, chemists blow there asses up all the time. Obviously he had good intentions, he gave rings to all the other kinds, he was trying to promote friendship and show that the orcs were just a bunch of bros. And the arabs, and the french hairy beard men.

So in closing, I think that the whole middle earth situation was just a big old misunderstanding, like the time the soviets accidentally almost put missile bases in cuba that one time. (That was an accident, right?)

tolkien just didn't like orcs. Thats all. He probably had a mean ole' fat aunt that was an orc, that spawned this whole, terrible misunderstanding.

[Eagle of Fire]

I think you misunderstand a lot of things.

You need to understand that Tolkien created Middle-Earth a looong while ago. He started not too long before the second world war.

I have seen one documentary once (a while ago, this is certainly not new) about a study of Tolkien work versus what happened to him. It made a clear parallel on how everything is nice and good at the beginning of the story while everything seems to go down the drain after a certain point.

In the documentary, they explain how Tolkien had no choice to participate in WWII... He lived directly in the path of the Hitlerian army during that war. During and after the war (when he got back to his little countryside like village), a lot of things changed. One of those things was "progress" and industrialization, something he loathed in comparison the the simple life he had before. You can make a direct parallel here with the sudden industrialization of Isengard by Saruman once he get "overwhelmed" by Sauron after looking into the cristal ball... That's exactly what happened to his quiet little village in the events of that war.

The fact that Tolkien picture a lot of segregation and racism in his works after this is another direct link of what he sees in real life. He took a lot of what he saw in real life and added it in his work to reflect it. Probably in an effort to make his work more realistic.

Other than that, like I said his work was completed a long time ago. This mean that any parallel with modern problems such as racism of black people can only be coincidences or because the base inspiration of Tolkien simply reflect the basic reasons why the aforementioned modern problem actually occur.

Frankly, making a parallel between black people and Orcs from Middle-Earth is ridiculous...

[Fubb]

Im actually thinking of the orcs as more of the workers of society, and Sauron as Lenin.

Viva la Revolution, also, taste my axe.

[angry axe]

You say that all villages are segregated so that makes them racist, but lets see how much you would trust someone outside your village if you were living in an age where bandits could mess your crap up any second, why would a, say human, want to live with the dwarves? and im pretty sure that there are humans living with the elves and also the wildmen use to be at war with Rohan and rohan won and drove them out making them wildmen and originally they were "Uncultured and superstitious, they were wary of the tall men who came out of the west, and came to fear and hate them" . And the "Arabians" were actually a people from an outside country wanting a stake in Middle Earth. And also orcs use to be elves but were tortured so much that they became "twisted", and they kill each other (including urak hai) so i doubt they would want world peace.

[Wicky]

The orcs were created by Sauron by physical mistreating elves and cross-breeding them with Numenorians. btw
Later Saruman created the Uruk-Hai by repeating the same idea, orcs with humans.

It seems that in order to not fear the sunlight everybody seems to be doing it with everyone against their will!

[Fruit Pie Jones]

Hey, wait a minute...

Originally Posted by Fubb

I was playing the 3rd Age mod for Medieval 2 Total War, as the Free Peoples of Eridoar or whatever it's called. Im the biggest faction in the game...

If what you're saying is true, you're the Big, Bad Oppressor here!

Filthy, stinking, hideously deformed cannibals Downtrodden workers of the world, unite! GET HIM! Tear him limb from limb, devour his entrails, and toss his family into the fires Apprehend him in a manner that respects his civil rights and avoids the use of excessive force, my minions equals! Comrades, brothers, fellow workers, that sort of thing! We're all friends here, right? Good! Once you've got him, throw him into the dungeon politely escort him to the detention facility, where the rats will gnaw on his bones he will be given three tasty and nutritious meals a day, clean clothes and bedsheets, a stylish but easy-to-maintain haircut, a mint on his pillow each night, and full access to a wide range of cultural and educational programs for all eternity until such time as it has been deemed that he has paid for his many decades of raping, pillaging, slaughtering innocent civilians, and kicking cuddly puppies poor judgment brought on by his innate depravity society's lack of respect for his individuality and the way in which he eats kittens chooses to express it. Now go, and may the hooves of your steeds beat a tattoo that will wake your enemies in a cold sweat every night until the day they die thrashing at the end of your spears you travel in a manner that respects both the environment and local traffic statutes!

What? You idiots unique individuals, whom I greatly respect, don't remember what you were supposed to do, or to whom? You know what? I don't either. Whaddya say we just go get a beer participate in a meaningful cultural exchange with a group of people that we hate may be different from us in their language, clothing, customs, and inability to drive a car without plowing into a school bus at 140 miles hectares parsecs decathlons what the hell is it? kilometers per hour food? No, you won't have to eat that stuff. I'm pretty sure it's made from the nightmares of the guy that strangles the diseased dogs whose parasite-infested ears they eat on special occasions natural ingredients grown on sustainable farms. Just tell them you are forbidden to eat it by your religion belief system morals desire to spend the next two weeks doing something other than vomiting personal life coach.

[Fubb]

This is great! Though you are technically right. All the orc towns I took over are now revolting every chance I get, meaning less troops get sent to the front cause of it. I've had to take the radical approach of exterminating the orc scums relocating the orcs from my city to graveyards lovely wilderness retreats where there culture will be destroyed respected!

[Tito]

Well, having in mind the time when the book was finished, we could also make a comparison between Middle Earth and the real world after the second world war.

In that way, Sauron, a kind of communist Big Brother having full control and information over its domains, is trying to take over the good old folks from the "free kingdoms" to the west. Luckily, this people get some help from agents of a continent far west into the ocean, and can finally defeat this menace and keep their "freedom".

I think Tolkien was pretty conservative himself, so this point of view is quite plausible.

[arete]

Tolkein fought in the First World War. The LOTR was written mostly prior to the Second World War. Tolkein himself bitterly resented all attempts to view his narrative as other than a story written for entertainment. Also Dr Pie you freakin' rock, my brother-from-an-entirely-different-set-of-parents

I'm off to read the Iliad free from dailylit.com -- and an agatha christie novel at the same time. Also, Mormonism. More specifically the secret bits of its history they didn't want their own members to know about but were leaked on the internet. Hilarity ensues! Also i seem to be drunk today even though I haven't touched a drop in months...