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[Smiling Spectre]

My beloved game that I admire from distance - Dominions 3 - is on Desura at last!

It's the best realm-based, turn-based fantasy strategy that I know. With only drawback is dated graphics and somewhat too laconic interface. Nothing too important for turn-based game. I love it!

It's 30$ that still bit too expensive for me, but at least I can aquire it - especially if it will be some (even minor) sale. Nothing like set-in-stone-outrageous 60$ from Shrapnel, that was here all this time!

[Eagle of Fire]

I have tried Dominion 3 after hearing from friends that it was one of the best games out there...

Would not rate it higher than 3 on 10. It is really that bad.

[MrFlibble]

Hmm, 920 roubles isn't exactly cheap. I thought is was free for realsies - like Conquest of Elysium II.

[Smiling Spectre]

Just as I said - it's somewhat too big for me too. But now I can aquire it, if I will really want it. No way for anything more than 40$. And, I can hope for discounts now!

Also, I renamed thread to avoid such sort of confusion. Sorry, Russian words for "free from prison" and "given for free" so different that I didn't notice apparent possibility of misread.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by Eagle of Fire

I have tried Dominion 3 after hearing from friends that it was one of the best games out there...

Would not rate it higher than 3 on 10. It is really that bad.

Obvious question: why?

Excluding graphics, of course. Graphics here like 5 from 10 for me too.

[MrFlibble]

Originally Posted by Smiling Spectre

Also, I renamed thread to avoid such sort of confusion. Sorry, Russian words for "free from prison" and "given for free" so different that I didn't notice apparent possibility of misread.

Ahh, heh, would've never occurred to me

Then again, without knowing the details, I'd never have thought of the games as being captured/ imprisoned by Shrapnel Games. I know only a little about the series, and Shrapnel Games are/were only a distributor, right? And without overly friendly pricing policies at that, as it seems

[Eagle of Fire]

Obvious question: why?

Excluding graphics, of course. Graphics here like 5 from 10 for me too.

Well, the whole system of combat for one. The system of moving units during moving phase for two. The fact that the manual is stupidly empty of all the important bits of info you absolutely need to know before being able to do well for three. And finally, the fact that the game force you to begin with your God creation phase with next to no info whatsoever on how it works and what you can or should try to accomplish meaning that you are almost entirely certain to do a lot of crappy games until you learn from your (terribly hard to swallow) mistakes or you give up in frustration and then go on the net for good, already existing builds which will always be superior to what you have done so far anyways.

The game itself is okay. It is obvious that a lot of thoughts was put into the game and all. It's a quality title... But the gameplay is next to zero.

I believe that you absolutely need to have played the first two iterations of this series if you are to have any kind of fun or understanding of the game.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by MrFlibble

Ahh, heh, would've never occurred to me

Then again, without knowing the details, I'd never have thought of the games as being captured/ imprisoned by Shrapnel Games. I know only a little about the series, and Shrapnel Games are/were only a distributor, right? And without overly friendly pricing policies at that, as it seems

Well, it was something like 90$ up to 2010, and they will send you printed manual and CD. Transport fees and costs up to me. Then downloads arrived - but it was still 60$, and for that you could only have your download ready for one year. If you want to download your game after that - well, too bad.

And as all of that obviously keep game out of interest for virtually everyone but most devoted strategists, I suppose, it's not the Illwinter fault. Or they failed to realize it. In any case, game was effectively barred from most potential customers.

Originally Posted by Eagle of Fire

Well, the whole system of combat for one. The system of moving units during moving phase for two. The fact that the manual is stupidly empty of all the important bits of info you absolutely need to know before being able to do well for three. And finally, the fact that the game force you to begin with your God creation phase with next to no info whatsoever

Ah. So it's not a game itself, but presentation. Got it.

Well, I can agree with you. It's not a most accessible game in the world, even if manual have tutorial that suppose to introduce all main elements for you. And learning curve is high. But it's not a problem for me - most, if not all good strategies I fail to win now and again, until "knowing it in heart", so it's totally normal for me to understand only partially how it's works here and there in the beginning.

But, of course, I can accept your conclusion. Not everyone is fond of trial and error methods.

Still... what's wrong with movement and battles? I think, first is quite obvious, and second can be leaved to computer anyway. Actually, if you will not give any specific orders, it's frequently would give you better results than giving wrong orders.

[Eagle of Fire]

In Dominion 3, your success is extremely closely linked to what you do. You can't simply leave default orders and expect a good battle if you have a custom strategy in mind. In turn, you can't expect to have a good game if you didn't have a custom strategy in mind in the first place because even the default races have one. It is all about immunities or about that little special thing which make up your God.

If you don't make up custom orders then your minions could really mess up about what they are doing. Like using gems or whatever they should not. Also, since combat in Dominion 3 can be extremely complicated and that you have no control whatsoever about it once it begun, the potential for mistakes or bad moves is humongous. I mean, I do play games in which battles are automatically waged and I don't mind. In fact, if you do a comparison you might think that STARS!, which is a game I'm extremely fond of, is pretty similar in many aspects to Dominion 3... Except that in STARS! there is no "special abilities" which can trigger and make or break your battle. In Dominion 3, it kind of happen every single frigging battle if you have casters or special abilities... And like I said before, you should have special abilities or spells if you want to win.

Then, about movement... This is kind of lessened against humans because humans are not as predictable but against computer based players you are always better off [/i]not[/i] moving your armies and using them as defense when there is a sizable force around because it will always move in when you move out. And since Dominion 3 is so ridiculously flawed in the movement phase, you could actually end up with taking their territory as they take over yours even though both armies originate from the same territories. They simply "get past" eachother... And then you are mostly screwed as the computer will then branch off to every single of your own "core" territories. And that would happen even if you actually had a crushing advantage in forces to begin with.

I felt that those two options were really putting the game off from me. If at the very least the battles could be controlled it would have been way, way better. The thing is, of course, that this game was entirely meant to be played humans VS humans in a TBEM scheme so it makes sense that all battles are automatically resolved every turn otherwise it would take ages simply to end a battle... But it does end up like I described in the end. Try to imagine winning Master of Magic with having auto combat on at all time and you'll understand what I mean.

[Smiling Spectre]

Originally Posted by Eagle of Fire

In Dominion 3, your success is extremely closely linked to what you do. You can't simply leave default orders and expect a good battle if you have a custom strategy in mind.

Oh, not really. Actually, you really need it, if you want to win in "even" battle, or if you have lesser force. Than yes, you totally need good strategy.

But the same is true for any complicate strategy game. And as I am more strategist, and only casual tactic after all - I am usually terribly sucks with big even battles. So I tend to avoid it. And play with overwhelming forces in key points. In that case it's your forces that matters, not your subtle strategy. And for me it's the huge bonus for me in D3 - even if I gave not very best selection of orders, after 5th turn it no matters. Except obvious and terrible fails like "say to archers go to melee" or "charge horses against elefants", but such things usually learned quite fast.

Also remember: computer usually have exactly yours abilities. So it can be the difference before 5th turn, but after that your troops intellectual abilities have exactly the same values as AI ones. And yes, your mages casts best possible spells, if they feels like it. It's strategic combos that sucks here for both sides - like having flame arrows to destroy enemy casters (auto-orders will address closest target, or maybe will not use flame altogether) or suicide elefant rush to backside (where AI will simply try to crush first rows). But in whole this auto-combats are not bad at all.

Then, about movement...
...
And then you are mostly screwed as the computer will then branch off to every single of your own "core" territories. And that would happen even if you actually had a crushing advantage in forces to begin with.

Ah. You totally miss garrisons then.

1. No any castle can be taken, if you have minimal garrison inside. It will be siege, and it will take at least one-two turns to breach walls. Actually, in most of my games it's good 4-5 turns. Enough to return your army.
2. Even without any castle, you always can recruit local defence. It's quite expensive beyond 10, but not requires any maintenance. One unit per one point of defence will be with you in case of enemy attack. For 10 point you will get also one commander, and for 20 - spellcaster. Actually, local defence effectively sinks even larger enemy armies and can totally block lesser invasions, even without having you to do anything.

Try to imagine winning Master of Magic with having auto combat on at all time and you'll understand what I mean.

Well, it's all about scale. I can tolerate MoM, Age of Wonders or MoO2 battles for 9-10 units, but even it often takes me tenth of minutes to finish. It would be impossible to play Dominions such way for me. Heck, it takes hours to even view this battles on huge map in mid-game! Also, it's rather positive for me than negative. Makes battle more role-playing and realistic for me than usual "I have total control over full battle" thing. Also, why it need to be MoM-like? View it under Civilization-like angle. Battle in Dominions just like that - either you win, or lose/retreat. Totally automatic, no tactics involved. (No, I don't mean Civ5, of course. ) It's not totally true, of course, as you still can give custom orders, but such view can help you to properly estimate it.