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[PrejudiceSucks]

The English are out of Wales. They have been for 300 years, they're just bitter about their history.

Also, with the Jews thing, that's xenophobia more than anything else, which is a completely different thing, as Beef said. Also, most people in Germany only went along with that crap because Hitler did reform Germany for the better. His ethics and views may have been wrong, but he did provoke change in Germany, which is exactly what it needed at the time.

As for the FY wars, they were the product of ethnic cleansing, which is indeed to do with racism, or really more to do with intolerance.

On the other hand, I have no idea how you're relating this back to the way that I act.

I don't like the American system of government, and their eduction system sickens me, nor do I agree with most of their laws.

On the other hand, I'm not against the American people at face value. I just hate its rulers at the moment. I know a fair few Americans who I do like, but then I know even more that I don't like (due to their relentless, unfounded hostility towards Communism and their hypocritical views on terrorism, mostly).

Also, my views are not unfounded. The American gun laws are stupid and there is a much larger proportion of gun crime in America.

[Chuck the plant]

Originally posted by efthimios@Nov 21 2005, 01:28 AM
Were non jews in Germany not racist against german jews, though they were also white and german?

That's called "anti-semitism", not RACISM. And even here racism would be more applicable than in the case of anti-americanism, since in order to be a jwe, you need to descend from a jewish mother, meaning you'll be inherting at least some semitic heritage. "Racism" is not just being against a certain kind of people for whatever prejudical reason, as the name suggests, it's related to RACE. Not nationality, not religion, not sexual preferences or veganism. As I said, get your terms staight.

And that also about former yugoslavia: It was also NATIONALISM that played the role here. Not racism. If the french were to attack the UK, it would not be of RACIST reasons, but more likely because of NATIONALISTIC reasons.

And by the way, we are getting WAY off topic with that little (but seemingly bitter needed) lesson on politics here.

@ Blood Pigggy: It's not about or against "the US", but the gun-sporting, backward pieces of white trash that compose the so-called "silent majority" and do indeed have a heavy influence on national politics and therefore the way "the US" are perceived abroad. If they wouldn't, most people would be much easier on "the US", don't you think?

And of course one can be "racist" towards his own race, but then his racism would also be directed against themself. Which is not the case at least for me.

[efthimios]

So, how is it against the jews anti semitic and not racist? Is it better for some reason, or worse?
Also if you accept that jews are a different race than germans, though they are also white, and (as you admit later) it is racist when it is done against them, how is it that you as a german (white) talking in that bad way against americans (the white ones at least), not racist?

In the former Yugoslavia, not racism but nationalism? Hmm, from what I remember, and from personal experience, it is not very easy to have nationalism without either having a base on racism or having racism develop from nationalism.


BTW, if you insist on the proper use of the word racism, and use it as an excuse to cover (my use) racist comments against the americans, then well, it doesn't make it any better.

Out of curiosity, if I would accept that what you or anyone with similar remarks, is not acting racist, or using racist way of eh typing, then how would you call such comments? If I (and I am not, I have nothing against the germans but I just want to make my point clear here) say something like "Screw the german assholes that are nothing but garbage on this planet and deserve to die"? Would that make me a racist or what? Or would that be a nationalistic comment? Because I know I am not nationalist in the first place.

For the slow among us, I am not actualy supporting that and I have NOTHING against german people nor do I believe it in any way. But since Chuck is german I would love to hear his opinion on the matter.

[PrejudiceSucks]

I'm English and I'd find those comments about Germans very offensive if they were for real, mostly because it would be unfounded.

Also, unless Greece has a long history of hatred against Germany (which I don't recall it having) then it wouldn't be nationalistic.

Unlike, say, the French or Welsh (as if) attacking England. Both of those countries don't get on with the British, or at least did 300 years ago. Things don't really change, which is a shame.

Also, anti-semitism is basically prejudice against Jews. That's it. They're not really a seperate race at all, unless you're a fan of Goebells' and hang on his every word to this day.

Our 'racist' comments about the USA are based on something which is actually quite evident. Hence it's not really racism, but stating the truth.

[Evad]

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/canada/a...5_110483_110483

Interesting info that is related.

[efthimios]

Originally posted by PrejudiceSucks@Nov 21 2005, 02:48 AM


Our 'racist' comments about the USA are based on something which is actually quite evident. Hence it's not really racism, but stating the truth.

You see the problem is that "you" are not just stating problems in the USA but accusing the americans of a variety of things. Calling them rednecks at every single opportunity is also not just stating facts. A large part of the population there have different views and ideas about how to raise their children, is that different way of seeing things just not acceptable for you? Fine, don't raise your kids that way.
Unfortunately no population is innocent of acting in a not acceptable (for each of us) way, including the raising of their young ones.
One example I have from the british society is that a large part of the population as soon as their children reach 16-17-18 are actualy kicked out of the house. I find this just plain stupid and a huge part of why there are so many younger homeless people in this country. I worked as a care society worker dealing with the homeless in the UK and it is unbelievable (for me and the way I have been brought up) how stupid these parents are. One case where the 17yo girl lost her mother about a year ago, her father had already split from her mother about 2 years ago and remarried, and he wouldn't let her stay with him because (his words) "I have a life of my own now" (I don't remember the exact single word but that is what he said). And he is not the one in a million case either!
In Greece the christian orthodox church has such a foothold on the people's minds that religious (read greek christian orthodox) education is part of the state's educational plan. Kids have to learn about "god" from as soon as possible. Also the largest part of the population has this "great" notion that if for example a greek is say a muslim they will say "you are a turk?". *dirty word* ignorance.
Still, we shouldn't go and make racist (yes I stick to that word) comments against the british, the greeks or anyone else. It doesn't do any good and can cause very bad feelings that can lead to other things.

[Chuck the plant]

Originally posted by efthimios@Nov 21 2005, 02:38 AM
So, how is it against the jews anti semitic and not racist? Is it better for some reason, or worse?

Neither. It's just something else and not racism.

Also if you accept that jews are a different race than germans

Never did, so the rest of your question is rather irelevant. BTW, I explained already why "racism" in the case of "europeans against european jews" would still be a more acceptable term as in "europeans against americans". Read it again and don't make me repeat it over and over.

In the former Yugoslavia, not racism but nationalism? Hmm, from what I remember, and from personal experience, it is not very easy to have nationalism without either having a base on racism or having racism develop from nationalism.

So you mean to say that the history of war between germany and france was due to racism? Because white, christian central-europeans were racist towards white, christian central-europeans? Two nations which both claimed to descend from the same man's realm (Charlemagne)? Not simple nationalism?
Same for former Yugoslavia: It was a "country" were several countries that existed seperatly before were FORCED under one rule. But e.g. Serbs and Croatians (the two main opposing forces) are of the same ethnicity (which might be a better word for "race"), so where the hell would racism stem from?

BTW, if you insist on the proper use of the word racism, and use it as an excuse to cover (my use) racist comments against the americans, then well, it doesn't make it any better.

I didn't try to "excuse" anything. Again, read what I already said. I gave you the liberty of calling me "anti-american" if you have need for a "label". I just have some problems with people engaging in political discussions when they can't even get their political terms right and shout "racism" where there is none, for example.

If I (and I am not, I have nothing against the germans but I just want to make my point clear here) say something like "Screw the german assholes that are nothing but garbage on this planet and deserve to die"?* Would that make me a racist or what? Or would that be a nationalistic comment?

Wooooh! Clever move! No of course I'm gonna be turning 'round big time and denie everything I said before, because you applied the example on me... :w00t: Guess what: It's still not "racist". It's also not really "nationalistic" (that would be the case when in the same instance you would be boasting about how your nation is so much better). It's rather "anti-nationalistic" towards the german nation. Sorry, no real "-ism" here for you...

Because I know I am not nationalist in the first place.

But racist??? :whistle:

But since Chuck is german I would love to hear his opinion on the matter.

"Out of curiousity": Why the hell would you think my opinion would differ all of a sudden? Facts remain facts, and it's a fact that what you keep on calling "racism" isn't "racism". You can call a ball a stick, but it's still a ball.

[efthimios]

What facts? You simply refuse to accept the term racism because it sounds bad. It is similar to how people say "I am not racist! He is just a stinking jew/frog/american fatass/german warmonger/etc" Or are you just being nationalistic? :whistle:

[Chuck the plant]

"Racism" applies to ethnicity, NOT nationality. Simple fact. Get over it.

[PrejudiceSucks]

If you quote me saying rednecks even once, I will give you a tenner. Otherwise, don't state things which are not true.