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[Sebatianos]

The idea of nationalism brought many good things - off course, but it's not the same as patriotism...

Both can be very harmful or very useful - depends on the people.
If a brainless fool is drunk and partiotic he'd wanna start a fight - BAD.
But if a person with good knowladge of the local way of life is patroitic - he'd fell the need to show some turists the best his land has to offer to impres them, because he's proud of his land - GOOD.

It's that simple. But what polititians do with Patriotism, Nationalism, and other -isms is just simply a crime (sometimes)!!!

[Stroggy]

Thats why the term nationalism in itself is insuficient and words like "positive" or "negative agressive" are used to symbol its true meaning.

[Sebatianos]

Well those terms should aply to the people calling them selves patriots or nationalist - not to the term patriotism or nationalism it self. Neiter is alive and can't be good or bad!
Like a chair - it's a chair - there's no good or bad there. But if you sit on it it's good - but if you hit someone over the head with it it's bad.
But I guess we agree about it, so no use in splitting hairs (I almost ruined my eye site doing that - those things are so tiny...).

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Stroggy@Dec 11 2004, 04:13 PM
You gave the example yourself when you talked about Europe.

This instead of this

You got it wrong, boddy.

I did not talk about this, as that already costed millions of lifes (WW1 and WW2). I was talking about this! Place where interest takes over the nationalism and patriotism.

Just ask your self what nationalism did to EU in first part of 20th centuary.

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by Anubis@Dec 11 2004, 09:30 PM

Just ask your self what nationalism did to EU in first part of 20th centuary.

You are completely oblivious to what me and sebastianos just said, aren't you?

[Rogue]

You are oblivious to what I already said. I was in the middle of 'nationalism awakening' that cost more then 200 thousands lives of my people. So I hate any kind of it, and you can't make it sound nice to me. It’s bad, always been, and it always will be.

[Stroggy]

Fine, believe what you will.
I can see why computer appealed to you, everything is either 1 or 0... sadly that kind of thinking doesn't apply to real life.

But whatever. Believe what you will.

[Rogue]

I told you, if there is a good example of positive nationalism (that did not cost somebody's life), I would like to know about it.

But trust me, nationalism is something only used to boil somebody's blood, and prepare peoples mind for inhuman things. (Like killing other who do not think like us, or do not belong to our great nation)

Now you know why I don't like praising of nations, and why I don't like when people prize their own nation (in any way).

It should be enough feeling that you have of belonging to your nation, but there is no need to yell about it. That's something our ancestor might have done when living in the tribes. (Do you think that all of us hate our nations, but is there a need for as to show it, like you did in signature?)

[Stroggy]

I find it hillarious that you perceive this as some sort of victory.

And my you really do like my signature, don't you?
Guess i'll have to make one with even more stars of david.

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by Anubis@Dec 11 2004, 11:59 PM
It should be enough feeling that you have of belonging to your nation, but there is no need to yell about it.

You can be a patriot - and really love your country - and be prepared to die (or even kill) for it, but don't have to disrespect others or constanly repeat you're a patriot.
That's just stupid - We are the greatest... We're the best,... I'm XXX so I'm better,... Long live all the XXX,...
That's not patriotism (not really) - it's just some yelling (usually done by drunks at a football match).

Patriotism is as I said before - being loyal to the place (or person) that is native to you. You don't have to show it - you feel it!!!
It's just like loving polar bears - I love those animals - but would never show this love to them... Much safer this way!