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[ReamusLQ]

Originally posted by omg@Jul 2 2005, 09:23 AM
my problem is you are tring to prove a point that homosexuality is curable. and that is just a load of crap. you are directing me towards a sience site with bible quotes plastered all over it. if you directed me straight to links to the studys, without there being any chapter and verse i would be more inclined to agree with the data presented.

did you actually scroll down that site and read it PAST the first "spritiual" part? Or did you just see the scripture quote and say screw it?

In case you didn't, for your convenience here is all the biological information so you don't have to sort through the bible stuff.

Science has not shown that homosexuality is an inborn or biologically-determined characteristic. Biology may play some small role in influencing behavior or feelings. Some people seem susceptible to particular actions and may be drawn toward them or become addicted to them more easily than other people.3 One person may be able to dabble with gambling, while another becomes a compulsive gambler. Some may drink only socially, while others have an unusual attraction to alcohol. Studies indicate that genetics may be a factor in susceptibilities to some behavior-related disorders, such as aggression, obesity, or alcoholism. Likewise, there are theories that claim biological predispositions influence the development of homosexual attractions when other life experiences are also present.4

Beyond such predispositions, some scientists search for more direct genetic causes—a gene or chromosome that actually determines sexual orientation.5 News reports on these studies have misrepresented the facts. If you read the reports published by the researchers, you find that they admit their current findings are not conclusive. Most scientists today give genetic theories little credibility.6 The more significant research in these biological areas is described below.
Twin studies

Drs. Michael Bailey and Richard Pillard studied identical and fraternal twins.7 They identified homosexual males who had identical twin brothers and found that 52% of the brothers were also homosexual. Among fraternal twins, they found the ratio to be 22%. They concluded that since identical twins had a higher incidence of mutual homosexuality than fraternal twins, there must be a genetic component in the development of homosexuality.

However, if genetics caused the homosexuality, the correlation between the identical twins (who have exactly the same genes) should have been much higher—even 100%. Since all the twins in this study were raised together, it is impossible to determine whether genetics or the same family environment contributed to the brothers’ homosexuality. If the genes are identical and the brothers are raised in the same family environment, a correlation of only 52% in identical twins shows that other factors are involved.

Many question the validity of the twins study. The researchers commented that since their subjects were not selected by random sampling, they may have collected a biased sample with skewed results.8 Another twin study was conducted a year later, which showed a correlation of only 25%.9
Brain studies

In 1991, Dr. Simon LeVay, a neurobiologist at the Salk Institute in La Jolla, California, reported his findings from studying the brain structures of forty-one cadavers.10 He concluded that an area of the hypothalamus (the INAH3) was smaller in homosexual men than in heterosexual men. (It was also found to be smaller in women than in heterosexual men.) However, these findings do not show any direct link between the hypothalamus and sexual orientation and, furthermore, are dubious at best because of the following reasons:
Since most of the subjects had died of AIDS, the HIV virus may have affected the brains in various ways, especially the hypothalamus, which is a major player in the immune system. LeVay himself admitted this was a serious flaw in the study.13

bullet It has not been determined that the INAH3 is involved in thedevelopment of sexual orientation.11
bullet The sample size of this study was small (only forty-one). Furthermore, Dr. LeVay did not know the sexual histories of the cadavers he studied. Nineteen men apparently were homosexual and he assumed that the other sixteen men and six women were heterosexual.12
bullet There were many inconsistencies in the findings. Three of the allegedly heterosexual men had a smaller INAH3 than the mean size for the "homosexual" men and three of the "homosexual" men had a larger INAH3 than the mean size for "heterosexual" men.14
bullet Many neuroscientists charge that LeVay deviated from protocol when he measured volume rather than the number of neurons in the INAH3. This is critical, since the area LeVay measured is very small (about the size of a snowflake).
bullet Dr. LeVay himself cautions that the results of his study "do not allow one to decide if the size of INAH3 in an individual is the cause or consequence of that individual’s sexual orientation."15

Anne Fausto-Sterling, a professor of medical science at Brown University, said, "My freshman biology students know enough to sink this study."16
Chromosome studies

In 1993, Dr. Dean Hamer announced that he had found a correlation between DNA markers on the X chromosome (region Xq28) and sexual orientation in a selected group of homosexual men and their relatives over age eighteen. In other words, "it appears that Xq28 contains a gene that contributes to homosexual orientation in males."17 In his book, Dr. Hamer stated, "We can make only educated guesses about the importance of Xq28 in the population at large." He concludes that "Xq28 plays some role in about 5 to 30 percent of gay men. The broad range of these estimates is proof that much more work remains to be done."18 Scientists have since questioned the validity of these findings and what they purport to show.19 Dr. Hammer has been charged with research improprieties and is under investigation by the federal government for improperly excluding from his study men whose genetic makeup contradicted his findings.20 A later study by the University of Western Ontario "found no consistent pattern of DNA similarity on the X chromosome."21
Hormone studies

Studies have shown that in some cases the mothers of homosexual males suffered a high degree of stress during their pregnancy. Since stress affects hormonal levels, some researchers suggest that decreased levels of testosterone could lead to a demasculinization of the developing brain. However, multiple studies over the years have not been able to substantiate the theory, and the available evidence is to the contrary. Ehrhardt and Meyer-Bahlburg wrote, "In the majority of intersex patients with known hormone abnormalities, the sexual orientation follows the sex of rearing. Consequently, we have to assume that prenatal hormone conditions by themselves do not rigidly determine sexual orientation."22 Dr. John Money also states there is no evidence that prenatal hormonalization alone determines sexual orientation.23

Experiments have been conducted wherein testosterone was given to homosexual males, both those who were effeminate and those who were not. "When there were any behavioral changes at all, the subjects became more like themselves than ever. Their sex drives were usually increased and sometimes their effeminate mannerisms as well (when they had any), but there were never any directional changes in their sexual interests. From these experiments . . . it has become abundantly clear that the sex hormones play a considerable role in powering human sexuality, but they do not control the direction of it."24
Biological conclusions

Drs. Byne and Parsons of the Department of Psychiatry at Columbia University reviewed the biologic theories of human sexual orientation in 1993 and concluded, "[T]here is no evidence at present to substantiate a biologic theory."25 No study suggests that a simple cause–effect relationship exists.26 And Dr. Earl Wilson wrote, "the disputed evidence for physical causes of male homosexuality is even weaker when it comes to lesbianism."27

Regardless of the role that genetics play in the development of sexual attractions, such attractions are changeable and treatable. In analogy, although the City of Hope National Medical Center researchers found a certain gene present in 77% of the alcoholic patients they studied, we have not abandoned treatment for alcoholism.28 Many former alcoholics have changed their behavior and lead productive lives. You have control over your destiny. As a child of God, you have moral agency and can determine the course of your life. Regardless of any biological thread, thousands of men who struggle with homosexual attractions have made changes in their lives for the better.

There is also a very large portion of the possible psychological explanations for homosexuality immediately after the biological section. And if you say these sources are not reliable or they didn't do their research, I can also post their sixty or so sources, so you can go look up these medical journals yourself.

[omg]

some of that information is out of date. and the way it interprets the data is biased. at the end of the day it is meaningless really. and in no way is it justification for denying homosexuals the right to adopt children. or is it justification for this idea that it can be cured.
a lot of the *treatments* include showing people gay pron while electrocuting them evry time they reach arousel mesured by a **** ring. the male doctor observes.
hmmm. what kind of a doctor is going to want to get a job where he electrocutes a man watching gay pron. hmmmmmmm.
o and i know people who have come through a very nasty time when they were young. major crap at home for them. and there parents were hetrosexual. with gay adoptions we dont mean where one parent leaves and a same sex *Step parent* moves in (step parent scenerios are traumatic regardless) we mean a long term couple who have made the decision at the point when they can afford it. these people go through psych profiling have there financial situation checked out ect. also if it is legal then it means both parents have finacial responsibilitys for the child as well.
the legislation needs to change. surrogates happen for gay parents. but sorting out finacial responsibilitys if one member of a sam sex partnership buggers off is impossible under the current legislation, as they aint meant to be having that kid anyway. but they will do it anyway.

[ReamusLQ]

I'm not using it as a thing to say kids shouldn't be in a same sex marriage. That's my own personal beliefs from the people I have seen come out of it very messed up.

[Havell]

Like omg said, the treatments are mainly clockwork orange style. Making people scared of their own emotions and treatment are two different things.

[BeefontheBone]

Plus it's far from the norm to view it as anything which requires treatment, or at least I thought that was true before this thread was opened...

[PrejudiceSucks]

I have really good idea for how to treat homosexuality -

Lobotomise them - They won't care who they look at, they'll be total vegetables!

[ReamusLQ]

Originally posted by PrejudiceSucks@Jul 2 2005, 11:09 PM
I have really good idea for how to treat homosexuality -

Lobotomise them - They won't care who they look at, they'll be total vegetables!

LOL...what a great idea dude! :bleh:

[The Niles]

This is not about anything anymore.