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[Mighty Midget]

Just some points:

Words can't harm? Let's see: A rhetoric genius talks his/her way into government, then starts rounding up everyone who doesn't agree, with such efficiency that overthrowing him/her becomes almost impossible, all while people get killed. You cannot just study the effect of soundwaves through air, you must also understand what words can do to the human mind. Words can change the way people think. Words can turn humans into a murderous lot. Therefore, words CAN harm.

Free speech. It's easy to reduce this to a game of words. Free... Free from WHAT? Free from cause and effect? Words are, still, remarkable effective at changing our ways of thinking. Universally? What on earth makes you think that whatever applies to our culture here (in our own corners) on this one planet would apply Universally? A bit of Intergalactic Megalomania there, I'd say. (Noooooo, I don't suggest the existence of alien life forms). Just be a bit careful, or thoughtful, when you use the word 'universal'.

(The last paragraph is half joke, half seriousness)

Puch line: Not only can words harm, but they can sometimes lead us down a one-way-street. Don't reduce and stupidify the meaning of 'free speech' to a fancy word game over the Oxford definition of 'free'.

[Reup]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tulac @ May 31 2006, 08:44 PM) [snapback]233513[/snapback]</div>

So this is allowed but pro fascist parties aren't, if you're so extreme in liberal views then everything should be allow shouldn't it? What's next a party which will vouch for murdering people to become legal, talking about that isn't illegal either is it?
There should be lines of tolerance, freedom should come with responsibility...
[/b]

Off course. I'm not in favour of pro facist parties, but they have a right to exist as well. Once members of that party however start denying the holocaust, chalk swastika's on synagoges or openly abuse and discriminate people (which unfortunately happens quite a lot), they should be brought to justice. Their party can be declared a criminal organisation and as such has no right to exist. This has happened in the Netherlands and rightly so.
I don't agree with the NVD that the legal age to have sex should be lowered to 12. I would never vote for them. I also would never vote for any fascist party, but as long as all they're doing is taking part in the public debate and using legal, democratical means in doing so, I've got no problems with them. I disagree with them, but see no reason to 'ban' them. They haven't broken any laws.

[Tulac]

start denying the holocaust[/b]

So that is illegal but saying that having sex with children is good? Where's the bloody logic, denying the holocaust is harmful and dangerous, having sex with children is too...

[Mighty Midget]

True. They do have the right to exist. They also have the right to use common sense, the right to behave decently, the right to leave toddlers alone and the right to STFU.

About the law:
Lawmaking is generally known to be a very little democratic process. Who makes the law? And for whom are they made? Would a paedophile party pass laws that protect a child from sexual abuse/assault? Would they abolish the laws that protect the child? If so, would it then be ok indeed to molest a child, because the law does not prohibit it anymore? To say it's ok just because the law does not say otherwise, is a very dangerous path to go.

[Reup]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tulac @ May 31 2006, 09:39 PM) [snapback]233528[/snapback]</div>

So that is illegal but saying that having sex with children is good? Where's the bloody logic, denying the holocaust is harmful and dangerous, having sex with children is too...
[/b]

I didn't say that denying the holocaust is harmful and dangerous. It's considered a crime in our system of law. Saying that you would like to have sex with children is not illegal, allthough you probably could use some help (owning child pornography IS illegal though, so that might be a ground to arrest some of the party members). Personally, having sex with children seems pretty nasty to me, denying the holocaust as well. The current government can now choose to make a law that makes saying you want to have sex with children is illegal. That way you could put the party out of business, but as of yet, no such law exists.

I must admit Tulac, the issue isn't as clear cut as I first stated. This is an ethical question as well as an political. On one side, I gladly give gays the right to enjoy their sexual prefs, am pro-abortion and euthenasia, legal sof-drugs, legal prostitution and all that, but wouldn't like to see sex with 12-year olds legalized on the other hand. THough there are probably people who'd react that way to gay-marriage, abortion etc.

[Tulac]

I also agree with most of the Dutch liberal laws (what I know of at least), but I don't think people who openly adverse harming someone(because really do children wantto have sex, I don't think so, they would only get used by adults), so I think they should be banned without a second thought, because this is something that could easily and scientifically be proven as harming...

[Fruit Pie Jones]

These same folks want to legalize sex with animals. Just wanted to make sure nobody missed that.

[Moonstrider]

... mg2: *speechless*

And I thought those swedes with the pirate-party were strange.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Reuters just removed that story from their site.

[Havell]

No they didn't, that link in the first post still works.