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[Grinder]

efthimios, I didn't want to call windows users or programmers stupid.
I don't want to seem like an arrogant Apple fanatic, but I'm most certainly
not in any way jealous of anything about windows. What I meant with crappy
homebrew programs is millions of plugins and patches that all do the same
thing. That's the thing I don't like about Windows. I have a question though:
Have you ever used both a Mac and a PC for a longer time? If so, which one
do you think was better for what?

Anyway, It seems pointless discussing the Mac vs. PC thing in a poll, so either we
open a new thread to bash each other's OSs or we just forget about the whole thing
and be happy with whatever we like to use.

[_r.u.s.s.]

Originally posted by Grinder@Jan 20 2006, 05:12 PM
What I meant with crappy
homebrew programs is millions of plugins and patches that all do the same
thing. That's the thing I don't like about Windows.

can you give me an example?

[Grinder]

Type "avi plugin + windows media player" into google. See what I mean?
Again, that was not in any way meant to be an insult.

[efthimios]

so you are complaining that there are many plug ins for windows programs that let you watch (in this case) anything you want, and that is a problem because?


You are missing something, I am not a supporter of Windows (or Mac of course), but try to have some logical argunments and not just bash Windows because you do not like Microsoft or because Windows has more programs than Apples, it is just not, wise.

I have zero interest in using a Mac. I am a pragmatist or realist or whatever you want to call me, I have zero reasons to try a Mac, I will not use a Mac.
If Windows stop working for me then I will consider a change.
Having millions more of software for it, is not a reason to move away from Windows.

[Grinder]

Originally posted by efthimios@Jan 20 2006, 09:50 PM
so you are complaining that there are many plug ins for windows programs that let you watch (in this case) anything you want, and that is a problem because?

No I'm not complaining about many plugins, I'm complaining about the fact that there are thousands of programs that all do the same thing.

You are missing something

What am I missing exactly?

try to have some logical argunments and not just bash Windows because you do not like Microsoft or because Windows has more programs than Apples

What makes my arguments not logical? What would be a logical argument?
And by the way, it's not that I hate Microsoft, I just don't like Windows, because I spent my whole life fixing computers that crashed because of windows. Microsoft actually makes/made some good things. Like their Keyboards or DOS. It's just that I'm sick and tired of Windows malfuctioning.
If you don't have any problems with windows, that's fine. There are some people who actually never had trouble with windows in their entire life. But just don't tell me to have logical arguments.

I have zero interest in using a Mac. I am a pragmatist or realist or whatever you want to call me, I have zero reasons to try a Mac, I will not use a Mac.

Fine. It's your decision. I was merely trying to say you should give it a try and maybe you'd like it. You have all right to say that you don't want to use Macs. But don't say that Macs are stupid.

If Windows stop working for me then I will consider a change.

That is why I switched to Mac. Windows stopped working for me.

As this is going extremely , I suggest we open a new thread about Mac vs. PC. (Assuming you are interested in discussing this matter any further).

I can only repeat that I do not mean to insult anyone, be it users, programmers or other windows-related people by what I say. Please don't take offense in my words.

[efthimios]

You are complaining that there are thousands of programs doing the same thing, why is this bad? More choice is good, not bad!

There is no reason (because of me) to get a PC vs Mac thread.

I am against MAC (Apple computers in general) since the 80s. Apple hasn't changed a bit. Over charging the hardware to give permission to use their software. It is what IBM tried to do for a while, what Olivetti did (with charging 3 times the price of a regular 386 having smaller hard drive and slower components, just because of the name LOL).
Good for Apple that finds buyers, good for users of Macs that love them so much and are willing to pay so much more money.

Saying Windows are crap out of nowhere, then yes I will defend them.
Now go back to your one button mouse and lets continue this thread on topic. :bleh:

[plix]

Originally posted by efthimios@Jan 20 2006, 07:20 PM
I am against MAC (Apple computers in general) since the 80s. Apple hasn't changed a bit. Over charging the hardware to give permission to use their software.

Hold on a minute here; you're certainly making it sound as if Apple is extorting people. Apple charges a premium for a quality product. Now I'm not a Mac user myself, but that doesn't prevent me from understanding that what they put out is consistent, of extremely high-quality, and stable. OSX is easily the most well thought-out, usable, and consistent desktop operating system to the point that it makes Windows look rather amateur. Plug an accessory in and it just works -- no driver problems, no hassles, no random crashes (relatively; we need not get into extreme edge cases here). One of the primary reasons for this is that Apple controls the hardware. It's not some evil plot to prevent others from supporting the platform, it's a way of keeping things stable. By your logic, Ferrari is acting monopolistically because they charge more for their cars than Geo.

You said that you use Windows because you're pragmatic. That's an awfully interesting comment considering that I'd imagine your primary use of your computer is surfing the web, office software, e-mail, and games. Now, assuming that's the case (and correct me if I'm wrong here), then the only value I see in Windows is the games. Office runs on Mac, there exist several extremely high-quality e-mail clients for it, and Safari is a very capable browser (easily superior to IE, and there's always the Gecko-based browsers for Mac to fall back on).

Everyone has their reasons for using a particular operating system, but to criticize Grinder for his distaste for Windows is just as stupid as his overly-general criticisms of Windows.

[efthimios]

I am not accusing him for his distaste of Windows, but of what he says and his tone against Windows. Putting the dollar sighn instead of the S, while Apple is what? Communist?


I never said or implied that Apple is extorting people. I clearly said that if anyone likes and wants to use Apple, good for them.


The case with Ferrari is hardly the same. Ferrari does not use Fiat Punto engines and asking for a Ferrari price for it. Or it doesn't use the exact same (and slower in most cases) graphics card and memory as PCs do and ask for X times the regular price.
And no matter how I see it, I rather have a FErrari than a Mac. (j/k)


Now, to your assumptions. I do not use MS Office, so it for the Mac is irrelevant. I use OpenOffice, so that is a mute point. And perhaps you do not understand one thing I mentioned earlier, I am not a supporter of Microsoft or Windows. But if you want to accuse and talk down someone, at least have some good argunments. Smartass comments with the $ sign and accusing Windows of having more programs is just counter productive to your fanboy argunments. (in general, not to anyone specific).

[Grinder]

plix is right, efthimios. The thing with the hardware is because they want to make macs as stable as they can be. The thing with the one-button mouse is just stupid. My Apple Mouse has five buttons, and you can use any USB keyboard and mouse you want with your mac.
IF that m$ stuff is bothering you, fine. I can write ms windows, too.
By the way, there is a Mac version of OpenOffice.
since there is no point in discussing this with someone as -sorry to say- prejudiced as you are, This will be my last post concerning macs.
If you want to see some other people talking about windows, just take a look at page 3/4 of the Windows Vista thread.

[swiss]

the good ol' fight between MAC and Wintel...

Since I use both MAC OSX and WinXP I can say that working on a MAC is way more fun and it's a lot more stable and inuitive and of course much more multitaskable (preemptive multitasking makes you open 10 proggs at the same time ehile surfing the net without any visibly lack of speed - try that with the MS OS).

Anyway I like MAC in almost all cases more than Windows. The only major thing against the MAC is the lack of a wide variety of programms (which definitely got much better with the Darwin core in OSX) and the case that most of my firends have a PC and so sharing ... errmm ... things (like games and stuff) won't work that good.

The price is OK. A MAC normally costs 1.5 x a Windows system but you have a seriously more sophisticated PC then. And let's not talk about design (that's a mojar thing why MACs are "so" popular).

Stop fighting here. For you do not fight if your VW Golf is better than someones Vauxhall Astra. It's mainly all a question of taste which system you use. You can be happy with MS and you can be even as happy with Apple so who cares?