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This game is retarded...compared to other KOEI games or better...

1. the economy is buggy. you never run out of food;
2. use save/load you easily learn all spells without paying anything;
3. you have to conquer every county to access the island where Balor dwells...and when you face Balor you can only take 4 men/women with U...
4. and...it takes u little efforts to defeat Balor...boring

[Borodin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Guest @ Dec 28 2006, 03:16 PM) [snapback]272678[/snapback]</div>

This game is retarded...compared to other KOEI games or better...

1. the economy is buggy. you never run out of food;
2. use save/load you easily learn all spells without paying anything;
3. you have to conquer every county to access the island where Balor dwells...and when you face Balor you can only take 4 men/women with U...
4. and...it takes u little efforts to defeat Balor...boring
[/b]

1) Have you tried not planting enough crops to see what happens?
2) I guess you haven't got sufficient control to avoid cheating?
3)/4) So you find the winning conditions both too hard, and too easy? As to the easy part--could it be because you cheated your way (see #2, above) to victory? As for the hard part--why should you get to face the ultimate enemy before dealing with all of his followers?

In short, I find Balor very well balanced, cleverly designed, pretty open-ended and much more of a challenge than some of the other PC-based KOEI titles. They really put a lot of effort into this, and it shows. Shame the company decided to pull the plug on its US-based, PC operation directly afterwards.

[Vicarious]

Game seems like one that you can take your time on and not worry about losing right away if you make those beginning mistakes. IF thats the case which it has been for me so far I really like that aspect of the game.

In short, I find Balor very well balanced, cleverly designed, pretty open-ended and much more of a challenge than some of the other PC-based KOEI titles. They really put a lot of effort into this, and it shows. Shame the company decided to pull the plug on its US-based, PC operation directly afterwards.
[/quote]

I have to say that the fact you find this a very balanced game boggles my mind. Everthing, even mundane things, is geared to give the computer controlled players the advantage. I really can't make sense of that. Perhaps it was done due to the fact that a really good AI wasn't possible at that time.

There is really very little about the magic classes that was done very well. It wouldn't have been so bad if NPC's also had to learn or pay for spells, but they don't. As pointed out in other posts, computer players are furnished with a complete list from the begining. I know some found they liked this since it gave them a sense of accomplishment but for me it lacks common sense. This is strategy game not a riddle game. There really isn't a good point to be made in trying out different runes in either battle or prov modes when the results are sooo random. If they had wanted to keep casters from being to powerful there are better ways to handle it then having a totally random factor in either a misfire or breakage. The resists would have made more sense if they had a ruling factor, such as level or some stat number, but that is random as well. I'm not going for a maxed caster ( in level and ability ) blowing their first spell in combat and breaking all 3 runes in the process. That lacks common sense. A short list of basic spells that you start off with would have made more sense or a very resonable price per spell. I hardly think that 35 cows per spell is resonable to a begining player coupled with the fact that npc's have them free.

In many games random events are a bonus. They keep the replay factor high and adds to the fun of a game. But in this title it's just to random. There really isn't much that isn't random. From learning skills, to gathering resources, to gaining new recruits from battles. To much is just " a roll of the dice" luck factor and in that sense I hardly think that resetting the game because you didn't like the results could be called cheating. As far as I can tell the only real cheating is the fact that computer controlled players have the upper hand in everything.

The fact that Koei closed it's offices just after this titled was released, adding the lack of features that are standard in all the Koei games I have played, and the lack of balance makes me think that this game was not really finished. I think the devs were told to wrap it up and ship it out before they were really done.

The features I'm talking about are little things like being able to get heros to defect, picking who would be in leader in a prov, alliances with other rulers, and covert activities. Those are all standard fare in Koei games. Especially the defection of heros. This game really is all about heros and how many you have. You can't take or keep control of provinces without enough of them. Why make it level and/or combat based only? Any prov that has a previous tribe ruler makes him/her the defalut leader of that prov. The fact that being a higher level then who you are recruiting ( ronin) is required makes this an issue. I have to quickly get rid of that leader by moving or scouting to get the new recruit. That sometimes messes up battle plans I had in the making.

Don't get me wrong there are features in this title that I wish had been added to some of their other games. I like the way you get the personal feel over prov's and heros. I really prefer the prov interface verses just watching the numbers go up like their other games. It's a pity that building up the prov's doesn't really have a game impact though. Yes you gather grain but prestige doesn't really have a true game function. I think it might have at one time but that was scrapped for some reason.

I think to overlook game flaws is fine but it is never wise to pretend they don't exsist at all, especially when pointed out by others. You risk losing creditability.

Greetings,


I came to download roleplays, yet I knew Ghenghis Khan or Nobunaga. KOEI always had good basics and here, once more, what I read is true.

Compared to other KOEI stuff, this game is well made. Replacing the music by celtic music of choice may be a hint.

I made it run in DosBox, after proper (maximum) configuration. It runs stable and under options the message speed gets improved. The game is not perfect, yet some free hours of gratis fun for sure.

Truth be spoken, when it comes to "the Celts" I never even heard or read about a better approach. It has a boring routine aspect though and sometimes allies behave like fomor.

Once morethanks to abandonia.com


Best regards

Andrè M. Pietroschek

I have some of those problems mentioned above: if i start it with vdm sound, it doesn´t detect my mouse and I get no sound. It doesn´t crash, however, but just restarts the intro after a while of me clicking my mouse in a frenzy without the programm noticing it.

If I start it in Dosbox, it does detect my mouse, it does have sound, but the mouse cursor is almost invisible and leaves images of itself in its trail randomly - which make it even more difficult to find the actual cursor.

If any of those two problems can be solved, that´d be great. I tried fidgeting with the configuration and install files, and also with different speed settings in Dosbox, but to no avail.

I´d really like to play this game, the concept seems very interesting - but the way it works now it is not really playable.

[Borodin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Guest @ Jan 5 2007, 09:17 PM) [snapback]273485[/snapback]</div>

I have to say that the fact you find this a very balanced game boggles my mind. Everthing, even mundane things, is geared to give the computer controlled players the advantage. I really can't make sense of that. Perhaps it was done due to the fact that a really good AI wasn't possible at that time.[/b]

I have yet to encounter a rules-based AI which doesn't include features that give the computer player some advantage. Even some of the best in this regard still "cheat" in ways, because they realize that the human player is going to be better at creatively integrating and using all possible features to their advantage. So it's a matter of how much cheating you or I will tolerate, rather than finding a game (at least in my experience) that never cheats, at all. Do you ever play Master of Magic? Anything from the Age of Wonders series? All three have terrible AI, with no compensation in the first--so that it's relatively easy to beat--and plenty of compensation in the pair of AoW titles, that present a challenge only by ramping up the AI's powers and resources. Still fun games that quite a few people seem to enjoy; for what that's worth.

There is really very little about the magic classes that was done very well. It wouldn't have been so bad if NPC's also had to learn or pay for spells, but they don't. As pointed out in other posts, computer players are furnished with a complete list from the begining. I know some found they liked this since it gave them a sense of accomplishment but for me it lacks common sense. This is strategy game not a riddle game.[/b]

Your choice; not mine. I felt it did give me a sense of accomplishment. Are you saying you're right and I'm not? Is it possible that two people can both be right, when they have different tastes?

There really isn't a good point to be made in trying out different runes in either battle or prov modes when the results are sooo random. If they had wanted to keep casters from being to powerful there are better ways to handle it then having a totally random factor in either a misfire or breakage.[/b]

Can't agree with you. I think the chance factor adds to the unpredictability factor. So let me ask you: are you opposed to any unpredictability and/or randomness, or just to the degree employed in this feature?

In many games random events are a bonus. They keep the replay factor high and adds to the fun of a game. But in this title it's just to random. There really isn't much that isn't random. From learning skills, to gathering resources, to gaining new recruits from battles. To much is just " a roll of the dice" luck factor and in that sense I hardly think that resetting the game because you didn't like the results could be called cheating. As far as I can tell the only real cheating is the fact that computer controlled players have the upper hand in everything.[/b]

Have you ever beaten the game, without reloading? Just curious.

The fact that Koei closed it's offices just after this titled was released, adding the lack of features that are standard in all the Koei games I have played, and the lack of balance makes me think that this game was not really finished. I think the devs were told to wrap it up and ship it out before they were really done.[/b]

KOEI didn't close its offices right after BotEE was released. The company closed their North American branch and stopped further development of PC titles, because sales were poor in general for all its titles sold recently in the US. The Japanese model of computer games sales is very different from the one in the US, and it's been easy for KOEI to sell relatively small incremental upgrades as new products over in its core territory. That didn't work well for them, back in the day. Perhaps it would work better, now. In any case, the title was released a few months before KOEI shut down their offices, and they put a good deal of money into Balor's US publicity--not the kind of thing you do if you intend to pull the plug on the game.

The features I'm talking about are little things like being able to get heros to defect, picking who would be in leader in a prov, alliances with other rulers, and covert activities. Those are all standard fare in Koei games. Especially the defection of heros. This game really is all about heros and how many you have. You can't take or keep control of provinces without enough of them. Why make it level and/or combat based only? Any prov that has a previous tribe ruler makes him/her the defalut leader of that prov. The fact that being a higher level then who you are recruiting ( ronin) is required makes this an issue. I have to quickly get rid of that leader by moving or scouting to get the new recruit. That sometimes messes up battle plans I had in the making. [/b]

What you consider an annoyance, I consider an effort to force the player into using strategy. Same way, say, that Civ4 aribtrarily creates randomized "hereditary enemies" for its computer players in each new game, so that you will fall afoul of them, and have to make some enemies, yourself. The fact that continuing to trade with everybody causes you to be hated *worse* than an hereditary enemy makes no sense at all, but it's a deliberate strategic element of gameplay. I do agree it is counter-intuitive, though.

I think to overlook game flaws is fine but it is never wise to pretend they don't exsist at all, especially when pointed out by others. You risk losing creditability.
[/b]

As much can be said by a person who repeatedly comments here as one of many "Guests" instead of using a consistent name. And if you can show me where I stated that the game has no flaws at all, I'd be much obliged.

Hi, anyone had or knows how to get the item 'Lia Fail'? According to the manual, it is an item which boosts all 4 basic stats - arms, dexterity, mind and charm. I could not get the item from the blessings of Danu each year.

I believe this is one of the items besides Sword of Nuada which you can getting after training with Skatha and Gae Bolga after defeating the second last round.

Please do share if you know, I really appreciates.

Thanks.

[Gor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tim @ Mar 5 2007, 04:46 PM) [snapback]282011[/snapback]</div>

Hi, anyone had or knows how to get the item 'Lia Fail'? According to the manual, it is an item which boosts all 4 basic stats - arms, dexterity, mind and charm. I could not get the item from the blessings of Danu each year. [/b]

Lia Fail is given by Danu when you unite all the tribes, i. e. when you conquer all provinces and are proclaimed the High Ruler.

It's a great game... I've played it years ago and have only downloaded it again recently (thanks to abandonia btw). and I finally beat Balor's face in.

Only... the replayability suffers in that I don't feel like picking another tribe and doing all that again.