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[PrejudiceSucks]

Exactly. That's also probably going to be the menfolk, who could pick up an axe or sword at that age and go on some father-son looting (before trading).

You also have to remember that people are different creatures to one another. One may mature five or ten years later than another, that's just a human element. Some people mature at, say, thirteen. Some won't until they're nearly twenty.

[blastradius14]

Some give the impression that they never will mature...

[Stebbi]

i dont really have an oppion but i don't see there nothin incredbly wrong with abortion like puffin said it can ruin life's.

<skips previous posts>

Speaking as a Libertarian, I think abortion should be legalized. It is the mother's choice, and only she has to live with the guilt of having killed her child for the rest of her life.

That said, I think abortion should not be allowed for anyone under 21 unless the mother is in danger as a result of her pregnancy.

[PrejudiceSucks]

Urmm... why? If a fifteen year old has unprotected sex and gets pregnant then surely they should be allowed to abort the baby? What about foolish eighteen year-olds? People make mistakes and this is one way to sort it out.

You just have to remember, Triton, that not all countries have the close-to-Victorian culture (in some states) as the USA. Some countries don't slam sex before marriage or indeed sex in general. To be honest, if people want to consent before sixteen then it's nobody else's business. They might just be more mature, they might just be stupid, there's a whole variety of reasons. Why shouldn't they be allowed to abort a child that they have no hope of looking after? You can talk about the dangers of unprotected sex if you want, but what if the condom splits? What if the girl is lying about taking the pill just because she wants to experience sex?

Or are people not allowed to make mistakes?

[Fruit Pie Jones]

Originally posted by PrejudiceSucks@Sep 19 2005, 12:47 AM
Or are people not allowed to make mistakes?

People are not only allowed to make mistakes, they are also allowed nowadays to avoid taking any responsibility for them. This, of course, encourages them to make more mistakes, and the cycle continues. Who benefits from all this? Why, the lawyers, of course.

Originally posted by PredjudiceSucks+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PredjudiceSucks)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Urmm... why? If a fifteen year old has unprotected sex and gets pregnant then surely they should be allowed to abort the baby? What about foolish eighteen year-olds? People make mistakes and this is one way to sort it out.[/b]

Children under 18 are incapable of making their own decisions. This is why teen sex and pregnancy occur. Children are supposed to be obediant to their parents within reason, and following their parents' rule of no sex before marriage is not unreasonable.

Originally posted by PredjudiceSucks+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PredjudiceSucks)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You just have to remember, Triton, that not all countries have the close-to-Victorian culture (in some states) as the USA.[/b]

You mean like in Utah? People call me gay because I think it's best to wait for marriage.

Originally posted by PredjudiceSucks
Some countries don't slam sex before marriage or indeed sex in general.

This is because of decreasing moral standards in Western culture.

Originally posted by PredjudiceSucks
To be honest, if people want to consent before sixteen then it's nobody else's business.

Incorrect statement. As I said before, children under 18 are incapable of making their own decisions. They may think they do, but they're just being rebellious against their parents. Even if they were capable of making their own decisions, parents reserve the right to intervene.

Originally posted by PredjudiceSucks
They might just be more mature, they might just be stupid, there's a whole variety of reasons. Why shouldn't they be allowed to abort a child that they have no hope of looking after?

They can look after it if they get help, or they could just give up the child to people who can take care of the child. You speak as if adoption is not unlike incest.

Originally posted by PredjudiceSucks
You can talk about the dangers of unprotected sex if you want, but what if the condom splits?

Then it's their fault for having sex in the first place. Sex would be a whole lot better if you weren't worried about catching or giving STDs or getting [a girl] pregnant.

<!--QuoteBegin-PredjudiceSucks@
What if the girl is lying about taking the pill just because she wants to experience sex?[/quote]

That doesn't make sense.

<!--QuoteBegin-PredjudiceSucks
Or are people not allowed to make mistakes?[/quote]

Fruit Pie Jones explained it already.

[Chuck the plant]

Originally posted by Triton@Sep 20 2005, 12:55 AM
Children under 18 are incapable of making their own decisions.

And then they turn 18 and *PING* - All of a sudden they're all grown up and mature enough to make their own decisions. Magic! :w00t:

You mean like in Utah?* People call me gay because I think it's best to wait for marriage.

Then it's their fault for having sex in the first place.

Seriously, dude, did you ever even HAVE sex?

This is because of decreasing moral standards in Western culture.

Ah yes, the evil of the Enlightenment... It's a real shame people don't abide to religious dogma as much as they used to... Have you ever heard of the idea that "moral" is indeed a very subjective matter and not some sort of "god-given law" or even law of nature?

Incorrect statement.* As I said before, children under 18 are incapable of making their own decisions.* They may think they do, but they're just being rebellious against their parents.* Even if they were capable of making their own decisions, parents reserve the right to intervene.

Again, what are you trying to make us believe? That this "18"-thing is ALSO a law of nature? That by turning 18 you suddenly mature in all regards and that it is impossible to mature earlier? It's a MAN-MADE social convention, nothing else. It was AGREED upon. So by your logic, a society that agrees that even children should be allowed to have sex would be "right" for doing so (because they also abide to a different set of morals, obviously).
You see, there ain't just "right" and "wrong", especially not a "right" that is inseperably tied to christian culture and morals.

[ReamusLQ]

Although I don't usually agree w/ Chuck, he has a point about the whole 18 thing. In most native american cultures, and african tribes, and asian countries, if you were not married by the time you were 18 people thought you would never GET married. You were expected to have kids by 18, and marry around 13 or 14.

Now saying that, I don't support pre-marital sex, but what people do with their lives is their own business in that whole sex area. Although I think it's sad that since I left my old middle school (four years ago), the rate of sixth, seventh, and eighth grade girls who are fearing they are pregnant and talking to the counsellors about it has gone up 68%...in just four years.

Originally posted by ReamusLQ+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ReamusLQ)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Although I don't usually agree w/ Chuck, he has a point about the whole 18 thing. In most native american cultures, and african tribes, and asian countries, if you were not married by the time you were 18 people thought you would never GET married. You were expected to have kids by 18, and marry around 13 or 14.[/b]

The thing with Native American and African tribal life is that life was much simpler for them. Boys would grow up and learn to do what their fathers taught him, which probably pertained to hunting and gathering unless the boy had some special tribal status. Girls would learn from their mothers about what was expected of good women in the tribe.

In modern Western culture, however, one really can't make it on his (using neuter terms, stupid English) own unless he first completes twelve years of basic study and probably a few years of college in order to land a decent job. Can a 14 year old drop out of school, marry a girl, and spend his life in the woods looking for game? No! There is so much more to living a Western life than there is to live a life in an indigenous tribe; that's why in America (at least) kids aren't usually thrown out on their ear when they turn 14.

All this talk about tribal life is a ploy to throw us off topic. You are using uncontacted tribal life to excuse sexual promiscuity (which is hypocrisy in itself; why is it wrong to have more than one sex partner if you charge for the sex, but it's perfectly fine if you do it for free?).

Originally posted by Chuck the Plant@
And then they turn 18 and *PING* - All of a sudden they're all grown up and mature enough to make their own decisions. Magic!

<!--QuoteBegin-Chuck the Plant
Again, what are you trying to make us believe? That this "18"-thing is ALSO a law of nature? That by turning 18 you suddenly mature in all regards and that it is impossible to mature earlier? It's a MAN-MADE social convention, nothing else. It was AGREED upon. So by your logic, a society that agrees that even children should be allowed to have sex would be "right" for doing so (because they also abide to a different set of morals, obviously).[/quote]

The human brain is not fully developed until around the mid to late 20s. The early to mid adolescent years are the times when children develop the most, and nothing develops more than the brain. Children are more impressionable to things that come from outside the home (ie friends, TV) and this is why they tend to rebel from their parents. Children are unable to make informed decisions and are short sighted. They are growing up, but they are still children.

Originally posted by Chuck the Plant
Ah yes, the evil of the Enlightenment... It's a real shame people don't abide to religious dogma as much as they used to... Have you ever heard of the idea that "moral" is indeed a very subjective matter and not some sort of "god-given law" or even law of nature?

Just because something comes from religion doesn't mean you should discard it immediately. A lot of religious morals come from common sense, which is something a lot of Enlightenment thinker wannabes lack these days. Take Nietzsche for example: sure, he didn't buy into the whole religion thing, but that doesn't mean he condoned a life of drunken debauchery either.

When I argue about things, I tend to leave my religious views out of it, which is why I'm a reluctant proponent of abortion. Usually in a moral discussion it's the trendy anti-Christians are the ones who bring up religion as if it is the golden argument against morality.

Originally posted by ReamusLQ
Now saying that, I don't support pre-marital sex, but what people do with their lives is their own business in that whole sex area.

Change "people" to "consenting adults" and you'll be fine.

Originally posted by Chuck the Plant
Seriously, dude, did you ever even HAVE sex?

Go back under your bridge, troll. I am now less likely to take anything you say seriously.