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[Mighty Midget]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate the feedback.

About a depression, this isn't a depression in it's early state. I have had it and (it seems to me now) been nursing it and protecting it for about 25 years now. I have seen pros but they pretty much gave me two thumbs down saying I'm too old to ever see any changes, that anyone my age with a long term depression will never get rid of it and that I can live the rest of my life on various pills. That is not an option. However, this odd doc I got in contact with recently has a different opinion and I'm currently waiting to hear from him about any therapy.

I just came back from one of my walks and while walking it struck me how similar my reaction to seeing those positive thinking sites were to my phobic reactions. I was, to put it simply, scared of challenging my negativity, like I have kind of grown to believe my negativity is helping me in any way. I know that is a lie but at the same time I still sort of believe negative thoughts are good for me in some obscure way. At the moment I have to repeat it to myself over and over again that negativity is a problem, not a solution, and as long as I have to keep doing that it's fairly obvious I'm not out of it yet.

About any irony in the first post: There you go, I have read it again and I don't find any irony there. I have gotten so used to thinking and talking the way I do I don't even realize there was anythng in that post anyone would see as irony. To me it's just "the way it is" if you know what I mean. On using irony the positive way? Much of the same, really, and the fact that I just don't know what positivism is. If Mr. Positive came walking down the street with smileys all over and a huge sign saying "don't worry be happy" I wouldn't know. That is one of the great challenges to me, to learn what positivism means. To me it's just a word with no particular meaning other than it's something I believe I need.

On talking to people. Well, that's a challenge too. When you don't see how your sour or ironic remarks can possibly be seen as negative it's hard to avoid pissing people off. Another thing is I have just recently started the work of changing myself and I have never given this stuff much thought, rather I have ran away from it. Part of what I have to do now is to understand what I'm doing and why I am the way I am. As I said, it's a load of work when I'm almost phobic of looking into myself and running away from myself has become my "natural" reaction. Ok, I see the irony coming: You might have noticed I spent quite a huge amount of time on AB and AR. Before that I spent my time at the pubs. That has always been, I suppose, me running. Also, While running I have been faking a cheerful mood. I don't know, perhaps a bit how I wanted it to be and part what I wanted other to believe. Most probably both. To me, this topic is about talking to others while peeling myself to try to get a better idea of the way I act. I won't use smileys here like I have used in the sb, I need to stop pretending I'm laughing or smiling when I'm not. Talking to others won't do any good if I keep hiding.

I need structure. That I know, but it hasn't been in my thoughts for so long I will have to work on it just to feel at least a grain of structure. It's so long forgotten I don't even know how it will do me good and it's easy to forget about it and just go randomly through the day again. Seeing it mentioned helps a bit there so yeah thanks, that's a good advice.

Just for the record: I'm also visiting this online shrink forum where I have gotten a few words of gospel. I guess I'm at the point where I need to learn about myself for real.

[Playbahnosh]

Holy $&@#! Oh no you don't! There can be only ONE miserable freak on AB, and that's ME, dude! So bugger off before I unleash my giant wave of whine on yer behind!:notrust:



:amused: j/k
Seriously now, I have some advices for you if you are willing to take it from a guy who is, too, being down under. I'm no shrink, but I know a thing or two about depression, and the world being against you n stuff.
First of all, it is a good thing that you at least realised, that your life is taken over by negativity. It's graet progress. The next thing, there are some question you gotta ask YOURSELF. First of all "Do I want to be negative/depressed all my life?", this is an important question. If you relise that, there is another way besides the way you go now, it will be great. You gotta gather all your strenght and face this question for real. IT will be hard, but you gotta "face your demons", so to speak. When you wholeheartedly decide, that you don't wanna be miserable anymore, you gotta take the first step. Next question "Why am I being miserable / What's the cause?". If you have at least a vague idea about what causing your depression, try to change that thing, leave it or at least try to look at it different, be it your family, life, work...etc. Believe me, the first step is the hardest, it will be hard, very hard. Every inch of your body denies change, but you gotta move forward. If you make the first step, it will all be much easier, and go on it's own. You still gotta work on it hard, but when its set in motion, it will all be better. I know, experience. Oh, and don't let ANYTHING stop you! Its YOUR life, and nobody know better what's good for you than yourself, if you really committed. Getting a phsicologist is good, but he can't do miracles, YOU have to change YOURSELF, and only YOU can do it. I've never been to a shrink in my life, but I think he'll say something like this himself.

Anyway, I don't wanna tell you what to do, it's your stuff, dude. But if you wanna talk about it, PM me, I'll be here.

[Mighty Midget]

Ok, the opening of that post made me smile

ok, like I said, I'm just beginning to realize how much negativity has ruled my life. Up until today I didn't have a clear idea at all about my own negativity but during my walks today I was surprised how I could, with ease, label every thought I had as downright negative. I tried to keep the thought "look for something positive" but it went away before I got a chance to grab that thought. It's still too much what I see as normal.
One important thing you said was that I have to ask myself if I want it to stay this way. I don't. The thing is for now everything around this seems so new and I don't know how to go ahead and when I have lost the belief in myself it's hard to feel a wholeheartedly wish for change. I know I must change but it's hard to dare, if you see what I mean. I guess I need to get a lot more courage and faith before I can say without lying that I really, really want to change, still I kinda know that's what I have to wish for. I mean, for years I have actually told myself wishes are the fastest way to disappointments. I need to build up courage and faith, that's a fact, but I also need to get a feeling of what that actually means. I guess one will lead to another in some way, but I don't see how.

There's one thing I don't quite understand from what you're saying. I get the impression you say the cause for the depression is something outside of me. Like I said, I'm beginning to understand the causes are not outside of me, but inside of me. The causes are the way I coped with or failed to cope with things around me, so the answer will be in me and the way I see everything, myself included. The cause of the depression is my own thoughts and feelings around what happened and they make me behave in ways that only locks me in the depression. To unlock it, I guess I will have to change my entire world view. I can look out to understand a bit of myself but the main thing is that I will have to change. There is a saying that goes "if I'm right and the world is wrong, then I'm wrong and the world is right". That holds more truth and is much more relevant to me, I feel, than I have ever really realized.

[Dave]

Ehy there Knut, I'm sorry to hear this, really.
I'm quite sure that my words written in this poor English won't help you much, but you never know.

Like Playbahnosh said you have to change yourself, and only you can do it.
You are strong enough to pass this bad moment, but I don't think you have realized it yet, you are a good person MM...

I think love could help you a lot...really, or maybe God, or a real friend.
I could go ahead for hours, but you are the only one that can do the first step.
Good luck dude.

[Mighty Midget]

Hey Dave, thanks. Your English is far better than my ideas.

About "this moment". Well, I'm sorry, but it isn't really "this moment". Truth is you can take all those LOL smileys I tossed around in the sb and know I was never laughing out loud, more pretending to myself and you guys.

I don't know really, about friends. I keep wasting friendship, getting semi-friendly with the wrong crowd (not any of you guys ) and I'm sick of it. Like in the post above, it takes a lot more courage and faith from me to dare getting friendly with people and love is right out for as long as this continues. The risk of losing friends and loved ones is a bit too great when I know I'm still in the middle of it. I lost very good friends over the years, people who went out of their way to be there, but I suppose their frustration over my eternal negativity, lack of progress and me always looking out for answers chased them off if I didn't went all the way and went apeshit.

About God. I've prayed from time to time, but truth is I lost faith in the mere possibility of a God at a pretty early age. I think perhaps for some, God will be what they call a sensation of coming out of a rut. For the record, I'm an agnostic nowadays I just prefer to see the God myself instead of having anyone telling me there is one.

Anyway, thanks. I still look for the feeling I have made the first step. There's a lot of negativity in the way so I don't really expect me to feel it until I have made several more.

[Geezer]

MM. I don't know if this has any relation to your situation but I would like to tell you a story.

Almost exactly a year ago I had to resuscitate my son from a nearly fatal drug overdose because he just could no longer deal with his depression. As soon as he was released from the hospital I began working with him on ways that he can improve his life. Things like going back to school or finding a better job etc. He has become very negative and doesn't have the confidence in himself to make the changes that could be the difference. Every positive thing that I try to help him accomplish he always has an excuse for why it won't work or why he can't do it. I'm not sure if the depression has created the self image or if the self image has created the depression. He is terrified of failure and lacks confidence to the point that he has become anti-social. Anyway, what I have learned with him so far is that step one is FAR more difficult than step two. Step two is more difficult than step three and so on. I'm sure that if he could find the strength to make life changes that breed success he would find that success creates good feelings which create more success and so on. The important thing has been to make the initial steps small enough that he will succeed and big enough that he will feel good about them.

Another thing. My son worries and feels bad about the burden he is creating for us, his family. I want to smack the crap out of him every time he says that (not literally). If he could only understand the unconditional love that a parent has for their kids he would probably start to respond better to what I am trying to do. Sometimes I don't know what to do but i do know that I will never give up. I can only hope and pray that I can make a difference.

MM, use the people that want to help you. Don't be ashamed and don't hide from those that want to help. Don't try to bite off too much at one time and create situations in which you have the confidence that you will succeed. You are not alone.

EDIT: Another thing. Understand that there are chemicals in the brain that affect our moods. Depression is a physiological condition. Behavior modification alone isn't always enough. Don't rule out medication as a possible temporary aid in getting your life turned around.

[Mighty Midget]

Ok, now I don't know what to say but I'll try. What you say about your son is something I recognize too well in myself. The negative view, making excuses for not to try, him not believing changes will come and (probably) his feeling of being drained by the mere thought of trying when he's "bound to fail". His fear of failures and lack of confidence with all the consequences that has.That is a description of my own negativity too close for comfort. I know perfectly well it is true, that I have been and still am too much that way, but at the same time that's one of the thoughts I have been running away from and pretending my way out of for so many years now. As for me, like I said, it has been and still is close to a phobia to have anyone or myself have a look at how I really feel and what I really think, a near-phobia I have never really recognized as one until today. At the same time, I can't get away from the thought that that fear has to be challenged and wiped out before I can really start on the Big Changes I need. Also, as for my depression and negativity, this is the only thing I sort of know and recognize, and whenever I try to find something different it's like a vacuum there that has to be filled and the only thing to fill it is the same darkness I try to get rid of. That, I guess, is at the core of this topic, how to find something that isn't dark and how to feel certain it's right this time. I have this feeling the disappontment of finding nothing to replace the negativity while wasting energy trying is part of what has chased me off from trying, and I sense your son may have the same feeling of getting drained for what seems as nothing.

About accomplishing things: I can't say I ever accomplished much. I have had ideas but without the confidence I could pull it off I abandoned all the ideas and I then saw that as proof that my lack of confidence was well justified. For the last weeks I have started walking. At first it was short walks just to get out of the house, to break the routine of doing nothing. Then I started walking longer distances. I started setting goals like doing this walk I never before thought I could and I completed them. I'm still setting greater goals there. What concerns me is these walks haven't given me any greates sensation of accomplishments other than for a very short time and I soon forget how it was like. I'm concerned because with this depression I can't feel sure whether it doesn't feel great because I have a long way to go before I can feel anything or because it's just in vain. At the moment I can only be stubborn and keep walking, choosing to believe I have a long way to walk and that I will start feel something sooner or later. It still nags me though, that I'm only fooling myself.

About using people, well, that's an issue. So far I have been misusing rather than using, not seeing what I was doing and I have to say I feel bad about the whole idea. It's not what it should be like but it's how it turned out. Perhaps I feel I need to make some major changes before I can feel it's fair letting others help. Beside, for all these years I always looked out for answers, never at myself and I need to feel a bit more certain I'm asking for the help I need, not necessarily the help I think I want. Another thing is my negative view may stop me from appreciating their help as something that will do me good. That's one hellish vicious circle.

Except for my walks, I'm all out of ideas of what situations I can create. You are right, but it's something that seems unknown to me. When people ask me what I'd like to do for fun, I honestly have no idea and often just choose something random without actually believing it will be fun at all. Of course, going into something believing it will suck tend to make the prediction come true, so it's not as much a prediction as it is an effort from me to make the situation suck. It's fairly obvious to me right now just how massive my negativity is. I really need to stop it. I suppose this is the exact negativity that frustrates others. Believe me when I say I really want to snap out of it.

EDIT: Just occured to me. One of the most vicious aspects of a depression is that you stop caring about most things or anything at all. To me, telling myself "it's no use so I won't do it" or "it's too difficult, I can't do it" has also been a way of escaping that feeling of not caring and the feeling of guilt that comes when you sort of know you should try but choose not to. Like, I choose not to because I don't care so I can only blame myself but I'd rather not blame myself so I'll tell myself and others it's no use. Way to go if you want to nurse your depression but at the same time another vicious circle that needs to be broken somehow.

2nd EDIT: As far as what a depression is in terms of chemicals, it's a matter of beliefs. Modern science will say it's a physiological illness while a witchdoctor may suggest you need a good exorcist. I have no doubts chemicals play an important role in our brains, but I'm not sure about what's cause and what's effect. To me, pills are about dealing with the effects, not the causes and to me there really is only one option: To get rid of the cause for my depression. Like a painkiller can make life bearable if your arm's broken, anti-depressants can make life easier but just like the painkiller will not help the bone knit back in working order, no anti-depressant can remove the cause of the problem. There are so many alternative explainations on what to do with the cause, from the "nothing can be done" I have been met with in modern medicine, via energy fields of some sort in alternative medicine to demons and devils. Ok, so I don't believe in demons but if modern medicine gives me thumbs down I see no other option than to seek among alternative approaches. Another thing is that I feel by letting pills take away the symptoms I won't be able to search for the causes just like a person who can't feel pain will never realize his spleen is busted. It's certainly not a fun ride but to me it's the only ride that will allow me to getting in touch with all the things in me I have lost touch with.

[Blood-Pigggy]

I have these same sorts of feelings, but at a young age they're diagnosed as some disorder as something. I'm practically racking those up.
I have the constant need to be places that I haven't been before, my jogs regularly take me so far that it takes me around two hours running at a good speed to get back home.
That's a good thing, start JOGGING instead of walking, if you feel no sense of accomplishment from your walks, then push yourself, exercise to your limit. At first it can be difficult, but at some point you'll ignore the ache, and when you get home after going farther than you did before, you'll feel like you did something. There's a part of our mind that associates our ability to physically outlast our pain so that we can become stronger mentally as well, because we realize that we have the ability to better ourselves, even if we don't feel like we're making progress.

It sounds like generic highschool coach bullshit I know, but it's nothing like that. It's all about the feeling that you've beaten an older you, even if that older you is just a few days before.
Then read, read, read. Fill your head with things you don't need, think about things you've never thought about. Remember thinking about the possibility of oblivion in death and the strange feeling you had afterward in your head? Try to think about things that you'd never imagine before because it'll give you new perspective. Think when you're in a field on a jog, in a nearby park, or wherever else.
I understand that you'd think that it would only make things worse thinking about your problems, but if you let them fill you up for a bit you'll get over it. Just outlast a couple of hours of misery, instead of letting it drip in bit by bit everyday, it works hand in hand with the philosophy of making yourself stronger, just work through it and the feeling will dissipate.
But NEVER delude yourself, don't ignore problems. Try to find something that you can accomplish even further. Try learning to play different instruments, sports or whatever. Watch new genres of movies, listen to new music, on your jogs you can listen to a bit of opera for a boost. And while you're doing that think about how to fix things. As human beings we tend to think that there are only a couple of alternative solutions for a single problem, but arbitrary math problems aren't constant with things in life.

IN SUMMARY DO EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU POSSIBLY CAN. There is no dullness in your life, there's only a sickened will that won't push you to do new things. In the last year I've forced myself to start wrestling for school, do intense physical work-outs, write fiction, get into surrealism films, abstain from useless relationships and pointless flings, and find a way to better my grades in school while at the same time ignoring the useless wastes of time that the public school system attempts to suck me up with (fucking honor society can kiss my ass).
There's only one bad point to this, you'll start thinking you're better than everyone else because you've done so MUCH yourself.
If you think there's an empty spot in your life, it's because you haven't done enough to enjoy yourself.

I can't really relate to an extreme level since I'm still a teenager and there's much I can do to influence my path in life, but I do have tendencies to follow whatever impulses I have, it's another one of those *rolls eyes* disorders some doctor thought would explain everything that makes me different.
But despite all that, despite all that generic asshole bullshit that people spew about life not being all fun and games, life CAN still be fun and games if you just let yourself be more impulsive and enjoy these things.

Society can suck a ****, they tell you to be reserved, mature, and to control your impulses, but all that does is making a bunch of crowing jackanappers who're always stuck up their ass all day. Be impulsive.