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[Eagle of Fire]

I think the whole issue is only a way to blow up hot air and serve no real purpose. The gaming industry don't really want to shut us, www.abandonia.com, down at all. This is all a question of money, like everything else... And in term of money, we are actually helping those companies by giving them incredible visibility and publicity asking for nothing in return.

I think the real reason behind the bill is to shut down really illegal sites, mainly warez and torrent sites. And while abandonware is not legal per se, it is not illegal per se either.

[Red Fortress]

A minor question, the media companies say they need this law because taking down stuff from the net is like playing "Pop-A-Mole".

But will Domain Name blocking be any different, I mean whats to stop people whose Website Address has been blocked from simply changing it...

Example:
blockeddomain.com = Blocked
to
blockeddomain2.com = Not Blocked
or even
blocked222domain2.com

Its not that difficult to mirror a site, a community/forum might be disrupted quite seriously (the reason I'm worried about Abandonia), but the sites that they really want to block are mostly purely utilitarian.

With a few exceptions People really aren't emotional attached to them, so it would be easy for them to switch to a renamed/new site.

Hell, a site could change its name every couple of months, simply abandoning its old Domain...

So unless I'm missing something, this law won't really work...

[Eagle of Fire]

You are right Red. But this point was so obvious for me that I didn't think of bringing it up.

That's exactly also why those companies want us like we are right now: bent on not crossing the line. We don't host things which are already sold, we remove downloads as companies begin to sell their old games again (since game availability is actually one of our goals anyways) and we don't infringe on their profit margin.

I think the big bosses of those big companies understood a looong time ago that if they had struck this site down, it would arose back in another form. Most probably in several other forms. Forms which might not keep the same "legal" view about sharing old games too.

[Japo]

Yes but domains must be purchased from a central registrar, who is vulnerable to government regulation.

But you wouldn't really even need to move any website. The address of a website is originally numerical (the IP address), the domain name is only a service that makes addresses easier to remember for us humans. For example

http://abandonia.com/

points to

http://94.247.169.19/

But you can access a website by its IP address directly--try clicking on the second link, and the result will be the same as the link above.

When we (usually) enter the domain name instead of the IP address, we contact a third-party server that translates the former into the later, so the web server can be located. These third party (DNS) servers are one of the things this law wants to regulate.

But as I said, they're not even necessary. If they blocked a website, people would still be able to access it by its numeric IP address instead of its human-friendly domain name. That may be too much to handle for grampa or granny if they blacklisted the website where they check the weather, but computer pirates won't mind it at all.

The other tool they plan to use is to force any website located in the US, specially search services (Google etc.), not to show any link to infringing websites. This would be devastating for many commercial websites and any ones that are not widely known. In the case of widely known sites (for example thepiratebay.org), again the user community would know the link, IP if necessary.

But be sure that if they get away with this, country-wide firewalling is absolutely sure to come next. Clearly, once it's morally justified to bar access to some given content, once it's being done, but these mechanisms of doing so are so flawed, the next logical step is to make it work right: the solution is the Great Firewall of China.

In the case of the USA it might prove impossible however. Even this law now is so clearly unconstitutional. Take Wikipedia, it has an article about thepiratebay.org. Can they be forced to amend it to remove any links in it? I don't think anything could go more clearly against the First Amendment (freedom of expression). This is just a clear example, any website could claim the same. Actually this should make it impossible for this law to come into existence, even if the Congress passes it. A recent, far more difficult case showed that the US Supreme Court is still serious about the Constitution.

Actually a Great Firewall wouldn't be (at least so clearly) unconstitutional.

[arete]

From this, it's a short hop to filtering content the Ministry of Love finds harmful to the American collective psyche. Like what's really happening overseas. Or even just as far as Cuba, where the government rented a little place called Guantanamo Bay and called it Camp Freedom or some such. /cranky

[dosraider]

Originally Posted by Japo

....That may be too much to handle for grampa or granny if they blacklisted the website where they check the weather, but computer pirates won't mind it at all.......

Watch your mouth, punk.

Some grampas and grannys were internet'ing long before you were born.
Baby that you are.

[Lulu_Jane]

In the old days we used to jam a piece of twine into a craftily shaped lump of clay to get a mind blowing 14kbs

[KrazeeXXL]

Originally Posted by Red Fortress

Will all Abandonware sites be blocked?

I don't think so.

wouldn't be worth much of an effort to anyone. it's not a big market after all (for some games more, for some less), so there's not much money in it. Ergo, y should anyone do this?

Sounds illogical imo.

The only trouble I see is, when some game should become ESA protected and nobody knows it and it is still downloadable here and some guys start bitching around a bit.

But this is nonsense.

Just think about it: Abandonia and other sites created and maintain a community around those old games. You can ask questions here and get them answered. That's worth much and you can't measure it by any money. And I doubt that ESA somehow would open up a forum for the very same purposes (support and whatnot) with ppl that are that damn dedicative, like some guys and gals here @ AB. (would cost them money as well, you know)

So I have to ask again. Why should anyone close great sites like this, which are the only places to go in the Internets and which keep those old games alive? If you wouldn't have sites like this, you'd lose more and more games over the years - it's the same with words, if they weren't spoken, they simply vanish after some time.

At the end, you might have some games you'd never ever find anywhere and they'd be lost for all times. It's kinda library here, so which idiot would burn that down?!

Another fact might be that some ESA guys even use sites like this to check out how intense the interests of ppl in specific old games are. So they can use informations they gain here to buy the rights of old games, to later sell them = another reason not to close sites like AB.

So, I don't see any reason why some ppl from any country or organization should sue the hoster of this site or block this hp (LOL WUT?!) or something.


That is all.

edit: effin grammar

[dosraider]

Originally Posted by KrazeeXXL

It's kinda library here, so which idiot would burn that down?!

Of course, we all know that 'the powers that be' excel in common sense ... as if.

[Japo]

Originally Posted by dosraider

Watch your mouth, punk.

Some grampas and grannys were internet'ing long before you were born.
Baby that you are.

Do you know the IP address of weather.com by heart? Eh? Case closed. :P

I guess someone had to invent the Internet and defend it against the dinosaurs and the Huns...