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[kmonster]

Originally Posted by mcrfrg

I see on the internet people recommend bard, but I just tried it and I think it's a mistake to have a bard on the team; you can be without endless supply of sleep spells. The bard does not get good HP or AC and is a poor academic. Better would be a pure mage.
My other issue is the alchemist that people recommend. Sure it has some great spells, but in Wiz7 it should be more of an addition to the team than a substitute for a priest or mage. I tried a combination of (lord, monk, bard, samurai, alchemist, mage) and had often shortage of healing spell.
A very good combination I found was (Lord, monk, thief->ninja, mage, priest) . The 6th character could be anything. I chose samurai and would like to try a caster like the alchemist if I play again, not only for spells, but also for other academic skills.

I'd rather have a pure bard than a pure mage in the party. Mages get faster mana regeneration and don't have to waste points for dex and cha but the difference in spell picks is only 3 levels and bards will get able to cast all mage spells including nuclear blast at the highest level during the game.
The lute helps so much during early parts of the game that you'd never catch up later. It still useful in later parts of the game and there are other bardic instruments. Bards are also decent attackers for the second row, they can have 2 attacks with 1-3 swings with the main hand weapon (fighters 2*1-4, mages only 1*1-2).
Bards get only one extra hitpoint per level up compared to mages but this does make a difference since mages get only 2-4 HP (+ 2 vit bonus max) at level up, if the character with the lowest HP in the party has over 20 percent more HP enemy mass damage spells are easier to survive.

For your priest/alchemist comparison take into account that your second party also had an additional healer, the ninja gets healing spells and reduces the need of healing since he hardly ever gets hit with the class specific low AC.

[mrcfrg]

Originally Posted by Borodin

The later instruments help, though. I typically don't run a bard, but in final game of the series you could acquire one as an add-on to your party who was hilarious: a reptilian with the incredibly sugary voice of a Shirley Temple clone, married to a twisted blood lust. Heh.

Hehe...
The later instruments are quite good, but IMO you get them too late in the game to be powerful. They become redundant instead.

Originally Posted by kmonster

I'd rather have a pure bard than a pure mage in the party. Mages get faster mana regeneration and don't have to waste points for dex and cha but the difference in spell picks is only 3 levels and bards will get able to cast all mage spells including nuclear blast at the highest level during the game.
The lute helps so much during early parts of the game that you'd never catch up later. It still useful in later parts of the game and there are other bardic instruments. Bards are also decent attackers for the second row, they can have 2 attacks with 1-3 swings with the main hand weapon (fighters 2*1-4, mages only 1*1-2).
Bards get only one extra hitpoint per level up compared to mages but this does make a difference since mages get only 2-4 HP (+ 2 vit bonus max) at level up, if the character with the lowest HP in the party has over 20 percent more HP enemy mass damage spells are easier to survive.

For your priest/alchemist comparison take into account that your second party also had an additional healer, the ninja gets healing spells and reduces the need of healing since he hardly ever gets hit with the class specific low AC.

I actually tried 3 different teams up to level 5-12 with a bard, but when I switched over from bard to ninja and alchemist to priest, I had much better results. For me that's proof that the sleep spell does not make up for a large portion of the game. I also now play with the team that I wrote I wanted to try (with the alchemist). With 3 casters, I've never had it so easy up to Ukpyr and Nyctalinth, on expert difficulty I might add (Murkatos ghost was a pain though).

Anyway, comparing hps of the bard and mage is a fair point, but swings is a minor issue, because the bard is more of a caster and will be busy casting spells or hiding in shadows. As a mage, the bard will also not reach it's full potential for a long while. Not only is it 3 levels behind, but receives probably half the academic points that a mage receives. Even if it's "only 3 levels" it still makes a lot of difference in the beginning of the game.

The ninja as you pointed out as another healer, will unfortunately not contribute much as a healer until very late in the game. In my current game for example, my level 10 ninja has 9 divine points (he had 6 points at level 7). Looking back at my priest at level 3, she had 20 divine points, and 60 divine points at level 6. It was 100+ at level 10. Like the bard, because the ninja is a hybrid, the academic skill points per level up seems to be halved or in this case maybe even cut in 3.