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[Stroggy]

Originally posted by xoopx@Jan 20 2005, 04:08 PM

actually people pulled that 'translation' out of their behind. are you a scholar of ancient hebrew and sanskrit? i didnt think so.
its "not kill", by most people's translation

But it means "do not murder" in Hebrew
Oh and I do know modern and ancient hebrew

[Sebatianos]

Stalin had a deal with Hitler so nazis trained their pilots in Soviet Union before the begining of the second world war (even before the Molotov-Ribentrop packt). In that time the Gestapo planted some incriminating documents and some of the pilotes testified that they got top secret information about Soviet military. Stalin led an investigation that most of the army high command was againt, because the charges were ridiculos, so they became the prime suspects.
That's one of the things Stalin regreted most. That's also why this was the last great purge among experts in a certain feild in Soviet Union.
Those new generals were loyal to Stalin - but so were the mases. They truly believed he was their great leader who'll bring them the better world and that he was their closest friend (that's what Tovariš - Commrade means). They were loyal to him because he represented their homeland and the party that saved them from the opression of the feudal monarchs, not because they feared him (you could also say they were brainwashed to be loyal to him).

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by Stroggy+Jan 20 2005, 07:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Stroggy @ Jan 20 2005, 07:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-xoopx@Jan 20 2005, 04:08 PM

actually people pulled that 'translation' out of their behind. are you a scholar of ancient hebrew and sanskrit? i didnt think so.
its "not kill", by most people's translation

But it means "do not murder" in Hebrew
Oh and I do know modern and ancient hebrew [/b][/quote]
Thank you for the explenation, but that still doesn't help, because we're talking about the bible now. And what Jeses (if he ever lived - it's not proven yet!) did was this: He made a new interpretation of the Jewish teachings. So christianity - the folowers of Christ - in this case Jesus should listen to his words - not to the commandments writen before him. Jesus was the one who told them how to interprid the commandments, so to understan them differently would drive them a part from Jesus.
So to a christian it shouldn't matter what the original says, just as it shouldn't matter to Jews how Jesus translated it.
There is however another law - the constitution (of every single country - they have them you know - it's not just the US) - that gives everybody the right to live. Not to mention numerous international agreements that call for unity of the world and global peace...

Jesus' existence has been proven, but whether he is really the Son of Man has not been proven yet.

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by einherjar@Jan 20 2005, 07:41 PM
Jesus' existence has been proven, but whether he is really the Son of Man has not been proven yet.

How and when???
There have been numerous people claiming to be the mesiah in the time that Jesus should have lived. The story of his birth in Betleham is made up, so is the episode with the Pilatus. There are many other sections where there's just no sense in what his life was suppoesed to be - not to mention that the baby born in a bar disapeares from the face of the world at the age of 8 and then returns as a 33 year old man...
Give me proof!

[xoopx]

Originally posted by Stroggy+Jan 20 2005, 05:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Stroggy @ Jan 20 2005, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-xoopx@Jan 20 2005, 04:08 PM

actually people pulled that 'translation' out of their behind. are you a scholar of ancient hebrew and sanskrit? i didnt think so.
its "not kill", by most people's translation

But it means "do not murder" in Hebrew
Oh and I do know modern and ancient hebrew [/b][/quote]
looks like you need to study a bit harder.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/thou_shalt_not_kill.htm

The exact Hebrew wording of this biblical phrase is lo tirtzack. One of the greatest scholars of Hebrew/English linguistics (in the Twentieth Century) -Dr. Reuben Alcalay - has written in his mammoth book the Complete Hebrew /English Dictionary that "tirtzach" refers to "any kind of killing whatsoever." The word "lo," as you might suspect, means "thou shalt not."

[Sebatianos]

Sorry xoopx, but the old Hebrew never used vocals - so the word would be writen without them. It would there for be: L trtzck at best! I'm not an expert, but I am a linguist and a historian. There's no 100% certain way to know how they pronounced the word and what it meant at the time it was writen down. There are only guesses - more or less scientifical ones.

[Stroggy]

Please don't patronize me xoopx.
According to the Torah a man is allowed to kill in defence. There are a LOT of rules outlining the borders of "defence" but a man is allowed to kill in defence according to the torah.

So its impossible the torah forbids killing of any kind since it would be contradicting itself.
There are actually very few rules in the torah that nail an issue down, without any exceptions. The onlything I can come up with is about trees, in a time of war a soldier isn't allowed to cut any trees down. It doesn't matter if these trees belong to the enemy or your side its not allowed. There is a long reason for this.
But anyway the torah is far far too sophisticated to simply say "don't kill"

Oh and I believe Hebrew does have vocals. Some also claim the hebrew letter Aleph (first letter of the hebrew alphabet, pronounced as A) is an earlier form of our modernday A (or the Alpha)

there is an O sound which is the hebrew letter vav with a point on it (so it looks like in i)

[xoopx]

then we can agree that its hard to tie the meaning down for certain. i think in terms of the christians wondering which one to pick, its probably safer to pick the meaning that wont have them sent to hell if they break it!

[Dream]

Originally posted by cheesegrater@Jan 20 2005, 05:08 PM
Stop complaining about trolling and off-topic. Let the discussion flow.

Of course as long as you're the one trolling.

MY GOD you're great at it! But sure eh don't let me disturb your trolling. Go on. :angel: