28-03-2005, 04:43 PM
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#121 | ||
   Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ,
Posts: 4
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Geez y’know, I still need to get to the Big Bang stuff, and I keep getting more questions than I can keep up with. (Biology, Physics, Theology) Remember it’s like 10 against 1 on here. But I did have at least most of mine listed on one post. LOL
Ok since most you love to discuss evolution once life has already started, which is still skipping over major flaws… If evolution is true, how did we get from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction? Which evolved first male or female? To get to sexual reproduction you have to find two of the opposite sex in the same place at the same time. If evolution is true, how do you explain symbiotic relationships? You want some facts, here are some facts. The following have been observed: 1) Termites cannot digest cellulose. 2) They can only chew it up and swallow it. 3) The little critters that live in their intestines digest the cellulose. 4) Those critters cannot live outside of the termite. 5) And the termite cannot live without those critters. If they evolved, so which one evolved first, and how could each one survive without the other one? Yabor, you stated that everything is random. If that’s true, how can you write a coherent sentence down on this forum? How come it wasn’t…..dkjwoeur23405hg54hyujrghhgajherwjtkaiu21n cxzli9wj290gmw90et23 Your thoughts are not random thoughts. You do think. I hope you do anyway. There is extreme order in things you might not notice. The DNA in your body during development tells your body where to generate the nose, ears, eyes, mouth, fingers, sexual organs, etc. If everything is random chance then how come we don’t see every single person being way different? Eyes on one “person” would be on their arm, that’s if there arm wasn’t attached to their behind, their nose would be upside down and on their forehead, etc. If it was truly random, it would be a mess. I don't even want to think where the sexual organ would end up! LOL Going back to the sickle-cell anemia thing…. Sickle-cell anemia is a bad thing plain and simple. It will cause many other things to kill you. So what you are saying is, once you have this particular disease, you can't get this other disease. But dude, you are still susceptible to many others. If you have a disease to start with you are not better off. Now listen carefully.... A person with sickle-cell anemia is missing the information needed in their DNA to produce correctly formed red blood cells (loss of information). Sickle cell anemia affects the hemoglobin gene by encoding the wrong protein in the RNA protein synthesis that normally builds and maintains hemoglobin. The “mutation” is not a positive thing. (Since the DNA “program” RNA is not working the way it’s supposed to, but it’s still all the same information, just scrambled. If it was working in the correct order there cannot be an abnormal amount of hemoglobin) It doesn’t make you a healthier person because if you have it, nothing can be more opposite. The symptoms of sickle cell disease are caused by abnormal hemoglobin. Hemoglobin, the main protein inside red blood cells, carries oxygen from the lungs and takes it to every part of the body. Normally, red blood cells are round and flexible and flow easily through blood vessels. But in sickle cell disease, the abnormal hemoglobin causes red blood cells to become stiff and, under the microscope, may look like a C-shaped farm tool called a sickle. These stiffer red blood cells can get stuck in tiny blood vessels, cutting off the blood supply to nearby tissues. This is what causes pain (called a sickle cell pain episode or crisis) and sometimes organ damage in sickle cell disease. Sickle-shaped red blood cells also die and break down more quickly than normal red blood cells, resulting in anemia. Now you can say it is a "benefit" because you can't get malaria, but am I really better off because I have SCA? When you have sickle-cell anemia, you are more susceptible to: Infections Infants and young children with sickle cell disease are especially vulnerable to serious bacterial infections, such as those that cause meningitis (infection of the lining of the brain) and blood infection. Infections are a major cause of death in children with sickle cell disease. Pain episodes Pain can occur in any organ or joint in the body, wherever sickle-shaped cells pile up and block blood vessels. Mild pain episodes can be treated at home with over-the-counter pain medications (such as acetaminophen and ibuprofen) and heating pads. But some pain episodes may be severe and need to be treated in the hospital with strong pain-killing drugs given intravenously (in a vein). Hand-foot syndrome Hands and feet may swell when small blood vessels become blocked. Stroke If sickle-shaped cells block a blood vessel in the brain, a stroke can result. Acute chest syndrome This is similar to pneumonia, with symptoms such as difficulty breathing, chest pain and fever. It can be caused by an infection or by blocked blood vessels in the lung. Vision problems When tiny blood vessels in the eye become blocked with sickle-shaped cells, vision problems and even blindness can result. Wow, sickle-cell anemia is such a positive thing. So how does having a disease, and not getting another disease, create new information to spawn forth progress that evolution needs? Let’s say, best case scenario, 1) you have sickle-cell anemia, 2) you don’t get fatally sick from anything else (hopefully), 3) and you are still immune to malaria. What do you do? You live, and that’s it. Where is the evidence (no new information is created) to say that you progress or evolve because of your state of deficiency and are better off than the “species” that came before you? So you increase your chances of survival by getting a disease that is damaging and can kill you (wow that’s logic?) But wait, good thing your immune to malaria! If you are born without arms, (a loss of information in your DNA caused you not to be born with any arms.) Or they happen to get cut off for some reason. Say the person gets arrested for something, they cannot be handcuffed. Hey, that’s a positive thing. You would be immune to handcuffs. It may be beneficial for the moment, but is the person really better off, back in society, in day-to-day life. And it didn’t create any new information. Last time I checked, arms are quite helpful in the real world. If you are born without legs (again, loss of information) or they get cut off for some reason. You would be immune to athlete’s foot. Hey that’s a positive thing. But am I really better off? And it didn’t create any new information. Last time I checked your feet come in pretty handy. Translate the above examples to the sickle-cell case. How can you get ahead, if you keep losing information? And you’re still not generating any new information. Yes boys and girls that’s how we came to be……we lost everything so that’s how we got everything. What? |
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28-03-2005, 04:54 PM
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#122 | ||
  Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Stephens City, United States
Posts: 488
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That is right. You LIVE. Live is all about survival. And duh, nobody is going to evolve without arms anytime soon. Because we USE arms. Duh, we USE feet. We do not use our pinkys, our appendix, or our tails. That is why we are steadily losing them. Without Sickle-Cell Anemia, you would die. Affliction is better than Death in the natural world. You may have all of those health problems, but at least you are not dead and can still pass on your genes. |
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28-03-2005, 05:08 PM
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#123 | ||
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ,
Posts: 4
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Quote:
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28-03-2005, 05:19 PM
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#124 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Stephens City, United States
Posts: 488
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No need to get nasty. A generalized Statement was called for, and explained later. Dont just read the first sentence and then Not read the other parts :angel:
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28-03-2005, 05:24 PM
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#125 | ||
 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ,
Posts: 110
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Yes. Why, what's the problem? You can interpret the "critters" (whatever they are called) as an organ of the termite. In evolutionary terms, the role the critter plays in the physiology/body chemistry of the termite can be explained just as any role of any other organ of the termite. We are all no biologists (I guess) so you have to excuse any generalisations on our part just as we excuse yours (your account of the symbiotic relationship between the termite and the "critter" is also rather general and not very detailled. No offense. I don't know it better. But I think it's more complicated than that.) |
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28-03-2005, 05:28 PM
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#126 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shella, Kenya
Posts: 576
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Actually what you actually mean with critter? :blink:
Which one? There is a LOT of them in the hive.(well dont know about termites but definetly in ant hive there is lot of them.Some of them are another specie, and some of them are specialized ants.So which one?) |
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28-03-2005, 05:28 PM
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#127 | ||
 Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, England
Posts: 1,325
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In the examples you used (no legs and no arms) the benefits are very small. But resistance to malaria is a huuuuuuge advantage (malaria being the world's biggest killer). If there is a chance some people may develop a resistance to the ill effects and therefore would be MUCH more likely to have children and pass on this gene. Therefore the human race will have evolved a resistance to malaria. This is just one way that evolution can take place.
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28-03-2005, 05:38 PM
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#128 | ||
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ,
Posts: 4
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1) The public school system is tax supported. They get paid by tax dollars. 2) The public school system teaches evolution. 3) Evolution is a religion. 4) The public school system is not allowed to have any religion in it if it is supported by tax dollars. 5) Private schools are not paid by the taxpayers. The are paid by individuals that want to send their kid to that school. Get the fairy tale stuff out of the science class, and teach science (things we observe, study, and test). You want speculation and imagination in origins, enroll in a private school that teaches evolution or christian theology. It is unfair and illegal (constitutionally) to force everyone (via taxes) to pay to have all children taught things contrary to the beliefs and values of their parents. The thing is, origins do not need discussing in the science class to begin with. Teaching anatomy/biology would just involve describing what the different organs do, muscles do, ligaments do, bones do, etc. If some kid asks during class "Where did the things come from?", you just say, "I don't know we're discussing anatomy here not origins" I mean when a doctor is performing surgery, is he thinking about where the thing came from. No. It is a waste of time and money. 1) Time- students can be learning science and do not have to delve into imagination, speculation and the like. 2) Money- hard working taxpayers who have to pay for some one else's beliefs to be taught to their kid Which is what any evolutionist/humanist/atheist would say if christianity was being tax supported. |
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28-03-2005, 05:42 PM
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#129 | ||
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Norwich, England
Posts: 1,325
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I don't know about over the pond, but here evolution is taught as past of genetics (and it is) and we are told (a 2 minute talk from the teacher) that this is just a theory and that there are other theories (such as creation).
EDIT: And I also believe that the parent's beliefs are irrelavent to what happens in the classroom. |
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28-03-2005, 05:43 PM
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#130 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shella, Kenya
Posts: 576
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Quote:
1) The public school system is tax supported. They get paid by tax dollars. 2) The public school system teaches evolution. 3) Evolution is a religion. 4) The public school system is not allowed to have any religion in it if it is supported by tax dollars. 5) Private schools are not paid by the taxpayers. The are paid by individuals that want to send their kid to that school. Get the fairy tale stuff out of the science class, and teach science (things we observe, study, and test). You want speculation and imagination in origins, enroll in a private school that teaches evolution or christian theology. It is unfair and illegal (constitutionally) to force everyone (via taxes) to pay to have all children taught things contrary to the beliefs and values of their parents. The thing is, origins do not need discussing in the science class to begin with. Teaching anatomy/biology would just involve describing what the different organs do, muscles do, ligaments do, bones do, etc. If some kid asks during class, you just say, "I don't know we're discussing anatomy here not origins" I mean when a doctor is performing surgery, is he thinking about where the thing came from. No. It is a waste of time and money. 1) Time- students can be learning science and do not have to delve into imagination, speculation and the like. 2) Money- hard working taxpayers who have to pay for some one else's beliefs to be taught to their kid Which is what any evolutionist/humanist/atheist would say if christianity was being tax supported. [/b][/quote] LOL LOL LOL Here in slovakia ALL children MUST learn catholic as religion.They cant chose.Until you get to gym. or private school, you have religion(catholic,they even dont think that there could teach other religion....) as a normal subject... I just LOVE my country.....  LOL LOL LOL |
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