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[Yobor]

Very intersting view of things!

[Lizard]

there's that thing about words of g-d... have any of you ever heard god talking to you? No? thought so. (yes?!? you're scisafrenic. go see a doctor. NOW!)The best you could claim is that g-d inspires ideas. Now this would seem quite peachy, execpt there are things for which you just don't have a readlily avalable concept. since I don't have any concepts none of you would have, I'll illustarte that by saying that an ancient man had no concepts for nuclear submarines or alternative dimensions. you could then replace theese with compositions of avalable concepts: a gigant whale of unknown metal and a place beyond the sky. the same way certain concepts couldn't be inserted into the heads of the biblical authors, or were screwed up a lot.
Then there's the misinterpretation bit. as science (and more importantly education) evolves pople will take biblical ideas differently, because they relate differently to the different enviroment and view of the world, even if the basis (The word of g-d) is still taken literaly. Resistance (as they say in those action movies) is futile! every time the people were presed to view the bible "the way it was meant to be" it provoked a crisis of faith, resulting in major changes through which could apear new grojups who chalanged the faith (hiretics) who then could be sucseseful and progressive (like the protestants or the atheists in their respective times).

Remninds me on Däniken in some ways....
Did you read some of his books.
He got intersting(althought a little unbelievable) ideas

[Evad]

Originally posted by Sly+Mar 26 2005, 09:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sly @ Mar 26 2005, 09:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Evad@Mar 25 2005, 10:41 PM
Belief in the big bang theory doesn't refute creationalist thought.

Evad,

Did you mean that God used the big bang and evolution? If so, I can open up the can of worms that shows that the two are incompatable, the big bang theory and evolution do indeed refute creationalist thought. [/b][/quote]
what i meant to say, is that because the bible is writen by men, I think it is falible, and no matter what science tells me, i will turn around and say... no matter what the power driven king or priests(who burned people for even thinking the world wasn't the center of the universe) said 500 years ago, your theories just explain how god wants us to see the universe, maybe its all a fabrication to fool p[eople who like to think they're smart...its totally unprovable, so i choose to have faith in God.

[Yobor]

Evad, that is an intersting idea, but improbable. Why improbable? There is no evidence to suggest it, and it is also weird and self-contradictory. If the being didn't want humans to see things the way we would, why let us think about this strangeness in the first place?

The basic reality is, Religions everywhere claim miracles and other supernatural events happened, and there is no way of proving this to be true. However, other things, like science (and evolution) can be proven true, through repeated experiments and trials.

On an Age-note, Carbon Dating is unfallable, within a few hundred years. The shroud of Turin? Fake, Carbon Dated the crap out of.

[Evad]

"The rate of decay of 14C is such that half of an amount will convert back to 14N in 5,730 years (plus or minus 40 years). This is the "half-life." So, in two half-lives, or 11,460 years, only one-quarter of that in living organisms at present, then it has a theoretical age of 11,460 years. Anything over about 50,000 years old, should theoretically have no detectable 14C left. That is why radiocarbon dating cannot give millions of years. In fact, if a sample contains 14C, it is good evidence that it is not millions of years old."
taken from:
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c007.html

[Evad]

"Evad, that is an intersting idea, but improbable. Why improbable? There is no evidence to suggest it, and it is also weird and self-contradictory. If the being didn't want humans to see things the way we would, why let us think about this strangeness in the first place?"

My main point here, is that I'm not an atheist. I don't necessarily believe totally in the bible, as I think the devil is in the details. I've seen and experienced too much to say it was just luck. Secondly, the God I believe in is all powerful, and controls pretty much everything, so it follows in my view that he can let us think what ever he wants for whatever reasons, and if you think its strange then thats tough. Who's to Say God didn't create the world with a big banng and evolution anyways, i suppose I started this when I said evolution and big bang doesn't refute creationist thought, wht I meant to say was that I personally don't think they are incompatible. And as for no proof to my opinion, can you offer any proof that it is false?

[Hkizzle]

Carbon dating was never meant to give million of years. Yobor did mention that it unfallable for a few hundred years.

I agree with you. What is to say God did not create the World through the big bang, and life on earth through evolution? But it is incompatible with creationist thinking, or we wouldn't be debating this here.

One camp says one thing, the other camp says something else althogether. You can't add up detailed genealogy that accurately points out each generation from Adam to the birth of Christ, and thus get 6,000 years, and then say well, that is compatable with the big bang.

Coincidence this story was just on CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/04/06...r.ap/index.html

It does mention that the fossil did not have parts that suggested it walked upright. But there are many other fossils that show there are many humanoid species very similar but different from humans. Where do these "missing links", some of whom seem to even have used tools feature in genesis?

Rather than what Yobor said which is basically religion is dead wrong and science can be proven true. All I can say is that the scientific conmmunity is where it is because a web of evidence from fossil records, genetic research, and archaeology suggest evolution does occur.

It is not as some people have preached, which is that man have tried to rufute God for thousands of years. Science is not making a beliberate attempt to refute God, the evidence points us towards evolution. I really don't think the scientific community has been duped by the devil as some would suggest!

I do not believe in the Christian God despite having gone to church for a period of time, had I lived in a Muslim country maybe friends would have asked me to go to a mosque.

I do believe in a higher power, if not a being. But I do not believe in a God of one religion because religions contradict each other.
If the Christian God was true, then 80% of the World's population are going to hell for not believing. If the Islam God was true then same for the rest of the people.

I really can't believe that people from different religions pray and meditate and feel the same type of spiritual enlightenment and see miracles as each other. Yet due to doctrine 5 billion other people will be going to hell.......for all eternity! There are friends of mine who honestly think some of their relatives are burning in hell.

If God was merciful, he shouldn't have given us free will. Knowing what would happen he shouldn't have created man in the first place! Why create mankind and have billions burn in hell? Certainly, even had I believed and it was true, and I was in heaven. I honestly cannot be happy knowing that most of my friends are in hell and buring for all eternity with no hope of getting to heaven, ever.

The theological debate for me is much stronger than the scientific debate, and it often bugs me because if it was not for this I would be a Christian. Anyone got any inputs?

[Evad]

I completely agree with you on the hell issue. If one assumes God is a being of love, then the whole hell idea is contradictory. An analogy that i use is this: if you ask a woman to marry you, and she turns you down, by pouring gasoline all over her and tossing a match on her are you demonstrating love or selfish evil? Also, about differing Gods, I prefer to look at it like this, its not so much different Gods, more like different lables for the same thing. Like two people looking at a picture can see totally different things; still same picture.

[Hkizzle]

Exactly!

I think people around the World pray to God and exprience the same type of spirituality. If there was a God, everyone's praying to him.

The problem is that Christian and Islamic doctrine does not support this. One group or the other are going to hell.

I know christianity much better than other religions. From an evangelistic view, we are seperated from God due to our sin. We choose not to accept Christ, we are not sent by God to hell, we send ourselves there.

But a few problems here. Hell was meant to be a place for Satan and other fallen angels. If God was all powerful, why do sinful people have to go there as well? Is burning forever necessary? Just send sinful people to a normal existence somewhere else rather than the beauty of heaven.

If God was about love, why create people in the first place? People say he loves us and wants a personal relationship with us. That's nice but at the cost of billions burning in hell? That's selfish in the most extreme. I'd rather we all never existed in the first place.

IMO, only very few people deserve to be in hell. Even if you commit a murder and did not repent, you deserve to burn for all etenity? That's not 10 years, it is forever, and ever. Maybe only Stalin, Hitler and a handful should be there. Even then, it's a bit too cruel. If they burn 20 years for each person they got killed, they would only be there about 40 million years.....not forever!

[Evad]

JW's believe that the goats go back to the dust..oblivion. So they are not tormented, but still not in hevean or paradise earth(which is another one of their beliefs) Apart from their annoying policy on recruiting door to door, I have a lot of respect for the JW's beliefs.
Another interesting difference about JWS is that Jesus is not God, but a lesser God, any comments on this one?