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[Marek]

@Stroggy: Nice one...

Its the same here, "I'm not a racist, but I wish these black people would..."

[Sebatianos]

Originally posted by taikara@Apr 28 2005, 05:33 AM
It may be easy for someone to sit back and judge us as Americans, not having to live here and deal with this sort of thing. I'm sure there are a few Americans who haven't even had to deal with such things themselves. But I know that even among Americans, not all of us are like that. I'm not like that, and I'm sorry to say it, but it does get to me that I'm lumped together with everything that is wrong with my nation.

I guess I was among the first people who made a direct conection between you (as a poster) and the general public (the stereotypical masses) of the US.
Reading back on what I said, I see it came out wrong...

What I wanted to say was this:
- Stereotypes are created because the majority gives the apearenc everybody is like that.
- The people who don't fall into the stereotypical cathegories are the ones that stand out.
- It's people like this, who have the capability to influence others (with their example).

You are obviously an intelegent woman (you've proven it on several occasions already) and you would be somebody who'd stand out in a crownd of stereotypical Americans. That's why I was really surprised to see that you at least partly suport gun-ownership (although for self-defence).
It's because people who aren't average brain-lazy with media-pumped-up opinions are prepared to take the first step into gun ownership - it gives justification for people who have lower standards to take two steps further.

I am sorry if this offended you in any way, but I saw your coments as - another good person has given up. If I misjudged you I deeply aplogize.

EDIT - and to elaboreta a bit more on my previous statemants (well... about Utopia really), here's what I Imagine.

[BeefontheBone]

Noooo! Imagine is quite possibly the most boring song ever written (with the exception of Mull of Kintyre, of course. Damn post-Beatles careers!). Though A Perfect Circle did a nice cover version on eMotive - it almost makes the lyrics sound good.

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by BeefontheBone@Apr 28 2005, 11:46 AM
Noooo! Imagine is quite possibly the most boring song ever written

I agree on that.
I also don't agree with it at all.

Thank God for deranged fans, eh Lennon?

[omg]

i dont hate americans, i hate there goverment. then again i hate our goverment, and i hate the european federal goverment, basically i dont like goverments, or people who like guns. i grew up beliving in democracy and freedom. these beliefs have been shattered in the past 5 years and i dont know what to belive in anymore.
i used to vote liberal untill i heard not a single member of there party was in parliment to vote against the anti terrorism act. now i dont trust them either.
democracy is an illusion to prevent us from rioting in the streets. we live in a capitilist autocracy and probably always have done and always will.
communism isnt the anser unless it is done with the right intentions (cuba, china)
but i dont look forwards to china becoming the new super power, but maybe it will be better, china tends to stay out of other countrys affairs.
america needs to start taking better care of her citizens. it would seem the gun culture is 2 firmly entrenched there for anything to happen against it which is a real shame, and she needs to stop meddling in the affairs of other countrys if the money for vietnam, korea,iraq + countless black ops had been spent on social care, housing and health care i dont think there would be the murder rate there is now.

[Stroggy]

Originally posted by omg@Apr 28 2005, 02:35 PM
intentions (cuba, china)
but i dont look forwards to china becoming the new super power, but maybe it will be better, china tends to stay out of other countrys affairs.

China has real communism? Since when? Last time I checked most political analysts agreed China is far from a communist country.

And as for its so-called isolationism China has quite a few political- and economical links to the world, important ones at that. And its generally believed that when China becomes a superpower it will be a major player indeed (which it already is)
It'll be just like the US, believe you me.

[omg]

Originally posted by Stroggy@Apr 28 2005, 02:45 PM

China has real communism? Since when? Last time I checked most political analysts agreed China is far from a communist country.

And as for its so-called isolationism China has quite a few political- and economical links to the world, important ones at that. And its generally believed that when China becomes a superpower it will be a major player indeed (which it already is)

call it an evolved form of communism then as people can own property, work for a varied wage ect, and u think they will act like the americans? other than tibet (after ww2 almost EVRY world power went on a landgrab. and the tibetens had proven nazi links, the chineese have always said they are wolves in sheeps clothing) when have the chineese waged war on another country over political idiology? i wasnt talking about politics and trade i was talking about military, ie: waging wars.

the americans have a history of inventing facts as an excuse for war. it is a fact the tibetens had nazi links. but iraq? oh he INTENDED to attack in the future. i think this new law is part and parcel with this war, as its giving people the freedom to kill someone over a threat, just like what they have done in iraq.

[Stroggy]

call it an evolved form of communism

Just like communism is an evolved form of capitalism :blink:
And if it is evolved it isn't actual communism, now is it?

Lets say true communism is based completely on Marx's Das Kapital and Communist Manifesto...

people can own property

"The theory of Communism may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."
~Karl Marx (The Communist Manifesto)

work for a varied wage

""I do not like money, money is the reason we fight."
~Karl Marx

Furthermore China even has active businessmen in the Communist Party, how can any sane person call China an actual communist country?

when have the chineese waged war on another country over political idiology?

I don't want to frighten you, but China could start a war against Taiwan (eventhough Taiwan is a de facto province of China) soon for a myriad of odd reasons (odd for the outside)

[omg]

all you are doing is picking points against me for saying they are communist *sighs* they call themselfs communist. so i will call them communist when defining them politically. they have a communist party in power. i canntot be bothered to call them *socialist capiltlists* (or whatever) it may not be true marxism but nither was russian communism, and this is straying from the point. i notice you have no problem with my other statements. just picking on the fact i called them communist is a bit lame really.

[Stroggy]

No, you believing they're communists is lame, if not completely incorrect.
its true the USSR never reached the marxist ideal because they stayed in the transitional fase. Marx said that the new government will take the means of production from the Bourgoisy and let the people use them to work and eventually the government will become superfluous and fade away by itself. obviously this did not happen in the USSR, or in China, or in Cuba for that matter.

anyway, I replied on most of your post.
The only thing I didn't reply on was about the governments being corrupt, with which I agree so why should I comment on that?