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[Sly]

Originally posted by Indignus IV@Jun 17 2005, 07:00 AM
why are we going into metabolism and thermodynamics? maybe this topic is going waaaaaay off topic.

It is very relevant. The 2nd Law must be broken for evolution to take place.

[Quintopotere]

Entropy is most created by order than chaos!

It costs a great waste of energy to do something orderly!
Is like to put books in a bookcase: if you throw the books you'll finish in a minute spending a little of energy, but if you put them orderly it will take you an hour and much work!

Why i said that?... I don't know, but could be useful for someone...

[Sly]

Originally posted by R Havell+Jun 17 2005, 07:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (R Havell @ Jun 17 2005, 07:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

It's called the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Everything degrades over time. Evolution supposedly can overcome the 2nd Law, but no one has proven how this can happen.

This is an extremely common misquotation of the 2nd law by creationists. They quote is as "Everything tends towards enthropy (chaos, basically)", the actual law states "In a closed system, everything tends towards enthropy.".
The omission of this tiny phrase complete changes it's meaning, it's like saying "It is illiegal to buy alcohol in the UK", when the actual law says "If you are below the age of 18, it is illiegal to buy alcohol in the UK."

EDIT: For an example of this, think of a apple. If you leave it in a dustbin (closed system0 in will go mouldy and deacy (ie, chaotic). If you leave it outside (open system) it will grow into an extremely ordered thing, known as an apple tree. [/b][/quote]
The universe is a closed system by definition. Unless you can cite an energy source outside of the universe. Any takers?

Therefore everything tends towards entropy. Yes the apple and the apple tree will grow but it will still eventually die and rot by purely naturalistic means. Adding energy is 100% destructive. The sun's energy is 100% destructive to everything on earth except for one thing. Chlorophyll. Adding energy is 100% destructive unless there is a complex mechanism to harness the energy and Chlorophyll is extremely complex.

[Quintopotere]

Originally posted by Sly@Jun 17 2005, 12:16 PM
Adding energy is 100% destructive unless there is a complex mechanism to harness the energy and Chlorophyll is extremely complex.

and the eficiency of the process is not 100% so it increase entropy.

[MdaG]

Originally posted by Stroggy@Jun 17 2005, 11:49 AM
But it does gradually make us weaker, causing out bones to over time become brittle,... wouldn't evolution deem this a factor worth improving on?

Society is taking care of those who cannot survive on their own nowadays so evolution is taking another road. Where that road goes, only time will tell.

[Havell]

Is it just coincidence that all of the galaxies in the universe are moving away from a single point in space? And that their speeds are such that if one were to rewind time they all would have been at that same point at the same time? That time being several billion years ago.

[cherri]

JESUS is very, very, real!!!!!! I feel sorry fur you guys cuz when u meet him your going to be in BIG BIG TROUBLE. If you think there was a big bang or that evolution is true you must be crazy. Look around you. It is all too complex to be random. Someone made all of this AND THAT SOMEONE MADE YOU TOO!!!! Think about it. There is something like 200 bones in your foot alone, and then there is tendons and ligaments and muscles all working together. Like a well BUILT machine. Cars and computers do not just materialize, what makes you think that the universe happened by chance? Think about this, everything in space has a gravitational force, everything is positioned just right, even one inch off and everything would just float off into space, now how do you think that random chance put everything in perfect order like that? If you dont believe in GOD our creator and JESUS his son then you are making a TERRIBLE TERRIBLE mistake. As for myself I believe in the BIBLE. If you dont believe the BIBLE then at least believe Simon Greenleaf. Look him up online, he was an evidentiary specialist at harvard, He proved that JESUS rose from the dead, PROVED it.Besides, has anyone else ever died for you, or even offered to. MAY THE LORD SHOW YOU THE WAY AND HELP YOU TOO SEE THE TRUTH.......AMEN!

[Rogue]

Originally posted by Tulac@Jun 15 2005, 04:07 PM
These people claim that earth is 6000 years old, and they claim it with scientific facts, yeah right...

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp

And the world is flat...

[TheGiantMidgit]

Uh oh, sparks look like they have the potential to fly... Let me go get some popcorn, and we're in business.

As for things being "perfect", well, in my opinion, that's just how things are. If the conditions weren't right, we wouldn't exist, so it's not like we could speculate about it. There's a one in like, indefinetly huge number of a chance for our existence, but we hit that one. Why? Because the alternate is nonexistence, and we wouldn't exactly be around to have a theory or two about that. If one event or atom placement or anything were changed in ancient history, we either wouldn't be here, or have adapted accordingly. As for the science versus religion debate, there are many ways to interpret any type of religion. Alot of the times, it's best to take the morals it encourages and apply them. You don't have to go about thumping bibles and religious texts at the masses, just learn what you can about life from them and use it. Love Thy Neighbour, etc. They're all useful anecdotes.

[Tulac]

Originally posted by cherri@Jun 17 2005, 01:50 PM
JESUS is very, very, real!!!!!! I feel sorry fur you guys cuz when u meet him your going to be in BIG BIG TROUBLE. If you think there was a big bang* or that evolution is true you must be crazy. Look around you.* /cut

So everything that we can explain must be from God? Yes Cars and Computers are made by humans, but if I would show them to someone who didn't see it before they would say it's made by God, same as you say for whole life...